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Richard Marshall... What has he done?

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OK.

Minus letting Fitz run all over without any care in the world... What has Richard Marshall done for the Panthers?

Marshall was drafted in the 2nd round as the 15th DB picked in 2006's Draft.

Since then, one has become a WR (Hester), and one was let go by the Falcons and picked up by the 49ers in January.

7 of them are CB's in the league... and all are Starters... well.. All at starting 2 positions... minus Marshall who is our Nickel guy.

[B]In the past 3 seasons, he's:[/B]

Got as many INT's as our Starters (Lucas and Gamble) with 3 in 2006

Lead in INT for the Panthers in 2007 out of the CB's with 3 in (Gambles - 1, Lucas - 2)

Gotten the least INT's for the Panthers in 2008 out of the CB's with 1 (Gambles - 3, Lucas - 2)


[B]Out of his Draft (CB's):[/B]

He's had the most tackles for his career at the moment then any other in his class of CB's.

He is second in the most INT's with 7 (to only Antonio Cromartie with 12)

He is tied for the most TD's with 2 (to only Antonio Cromartie with 2)

[B]Against the Panthers CB's (careers):[/B]

Marshall(7) trails Gamble(20) by 13 INT's and Lucas(24) by 17 INT's... But is tied with Gamble for TD's with 2 (Lucas has 1)

Marshall has 4 Sacks, Gamble 1, Lucas none.

Marshall is averaging 82 tackles a season
Gamble is averaging 71 tackles a season
Lucas is averaging 62 tackles a season

He's on a pace to out play the 2 starters on the Panthers in their current career numbers, and he's only a nickel back.

Minus the sacks.. because I don't study the game film and all that.. what advantages does Marshall have to have the Stats state he's a good player?

I know Stats aren't all of it. But that this moment, that's all I've got.

I know as Lucas has this season, and Gamble has in the past... Marshall has had some very off games/streaks (EX: 2008)

With route reading and that, I wonder how well he'll shine this coming season with the new DC that's got a history of DB coaching?

I have liked Marshalls play up until this season... so I'm letting this season kinda slide a lil.

I'd like to know what others of you think...

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Antonio Cromartie is a starter while Marshall isn't. For a 3rd CB I don't think he is half bad.

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He got beat a lot this year and I don't really know why. He usually played like a stud until this season. Maybe we can put the blame on the coaches? I always liked Marshall and I think he can play better than Lucas. Marshall is right around his career average in tackles this season but his pass deflection dropped. I think the main reason Marshall has been struggling is because the totality of our defense has struggled. We've defended the pass better than the run this year and that's not saying much if anything at all. Hopefully with the addition Ron Meeks, everything will be up to par with Marshall and the rest of our defense.

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I like marshall alot as a nickle player, he is ideal for the slot.

His only weakness is his size but on some ocasions even that doesn't matter.

Hopefully this thread doesn't start into a "start marshall over lucas" thread because those are so pointless, it wouldn't change a thing.

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[quote name='Alverez']
Minus the sacks.. because I don't study the game film and all that.. what advantages does Marshall have to have the Stats state he's a good player?

[/quote]

Marshall is more likely to get tackles because a quarterback, if given the opportunity, would rather throw against him than Gamble.

But I see your point, and I do agree that Marshall should see more playing time. He blew a few assignments this year, but some of that is because he often jumps his routes. That's why Marshall often can come up with the big play.

I look forward to seeing how he develops under Meeks. Same could be said of Godfrey and, well, our whole defense, for that matter. :)

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He definitely took a step back this year. I was shocked that he didn't beat out Ken Lucas for the starting CB position.

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[quote name='SorthNarolina']I like marshall alot as a nickle player, he is ideal for the slot.
[/quote]

Sorry, but you don't draft CBs in the 2nd round to play the nickle. Especially when you have Ken Lucas on the team.

He took a step back this year.

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Yeah, hopefully this was just an off year and he will develop well under Meeks. I am already looking forward to next season.

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Honestly, I think Tim Lewis was probably a big part of the problem. Our DB's...all of them...seemed to regress rather than progress. I could be wrong, but we'll definitely see next year. Meeks works well with DB's.

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[quote name='manwithcake']Honestly, I think Tim Lewis was probably a big part of the problem. Our DB's...all of them...seemed to regress rather than progress. I could be wrong, but we'll definitely see next year. Meeks works well with DB's.[/quote]


Funny how so many were saying how much better we were with Tim Lewis when he came here and how many are saying he sucks aZZ on his way out. Just an observation, certainly nothing against you...

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He's got the skills to be a starter he just needs some good coaching and a good work ethic..

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How does anyone blame Marshall for Fitz being open?

Come on.. That's all on Trgo and his dumb play calling.

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[quote name='Munkey']How does anyone blame Marshall for Fitz being open?

Come on.. That's all on Trgo and his dumb play calling.[/quote]

You could blame Tim Lewis too. I remember all the asskissing everyone was doing with Lewis last year. How they performed so well without a pass rush. Now they performed the same way with a pass rush and people are pointing it out as a problem.

Both Lewis and Trgo are gone now so let's end the blame game. realistically, you don't blame anyone but Fitz for being open. Believe it or not, but he's been pretty open in all his playoff games. He's like smitty, you can try covering him all game.. but you can't. (unless you're asomugha)

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[quote name='Mintal']Funny how so many were saying how much better we were with Tim Lewis when he came here and how many are saying he sucks aZZ on his way out. Just an observation, certainly nothing against you...[/quote]

I was one who was excited when Lewis came here especially given his resume as a player and while as Piitsburgh as DB coach and defensive coordinator. I thought he did make Gamble better and last year our corners were more physical. Through the first 6 games this year we were doing very well also. I have no idea what happened from there or why we looked so bad after the break. We looked like 2 different teams in the secondary this year comparing the first half to the second.

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Not trying to start anything, (start Marshall over Lucas) but it's a high probability that Lucas isn't here next season and that Marshall will be the starter come next season with Wilson playing the Nickle. At this point in Lucas' career I like Marshall & Wilson over Lucas & Marshall.

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I honestly can't wait to see what happens next season with a new Defensive staff in general. I mean, will out line be tougher? will the LB's be more on key? with the DB's be all over it!? Jumping routes, swat'n down balls... bone crushing hits jarring the ball loose?

those are more on the players than the scheme... and We all know the Defense can do all those things... But, a breath of fresh air in there... what will motivate now?

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I can tell you that Marshall plays with far more intensity than Lucas (and probably Gamble). If we want a hard nosed defense that people fear, Marshall would be a good piece to add, he loves hitting people, and playing football period, just watch how much effort he puts in on special teams. Guy is a beast. He did have a off-year, but we had some bad coaching on defense and I do think he's earned the shot though.

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towards the end of the season I got the impression people were writing him off... thusly I asked "what has he done?"

He's a good player... I mean.. it was preseason, but.. in the rain, in Philly, that fake FG pitch INT run back for a TD was insane!

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What has he done? He's been playing badly enough that I'm not comfortable with him as a starter. That doesn't take away that he is a good football player ~ but he needs major improvement if he wants to be a starter.

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[quote name='Alverez']towards the end of the season I got the impression people were writing him off... thusly I asked "what has he done?"

He's a good player... I mean.. it was preseason, but.. in the rain, in Philly, that fake FG pitch INT run back for a TD was insane![/quote]

It's that sort of play, along with Marshall's other interceptions or passes defensed, that endear him in the minds of many fans. But again, the flipside to jumping routes is blown coverages, which we saw a bit more of this season.

I think Marshall is a great talent and will really shine next year as he learns the game, especially under someone like Meeks.

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[quote name='Alverez']Richard Marshall... What has he done?[/quote]
Arguably? Taken a step back under Tim Lewis, which could be suggested of every other DB not named Chris Gamble.

I'm beginning to think the folks who suggested that the lack of PI calls may have been tied to a lack of aggression might have a point. Looking back at this season, how many times can you remember watching a DB jump a route? Certainly there were opportunities, especially against teams like the Saints.

I remember watching the Saints game and telling a friend "when they're passing like this, it can be a prime setup for one of your DBs to jump a route and take it all the way" but it didn't even look like they were trying, or even [I]thinking about it[/I] for that matter.

It made me wonder if they had been coached specifically not to do that.

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Yeah... I'm not calling for him to be a starter, but technically he "is" a starter but only in the nickel package. Personally I think we've got some really good CB's Gamble has shown he's good. Lucas we know is good... but as Marshall this season (and Gamble some as well) they have been out of position, missed calls, and jumped or given up plays that shouldn't have happened.

Overall I think our defensive coaching shake up will be a good thing id the motivation and the heart are brought back. I honestly don't see a problem with the over all scheme, or style of play... but the heart for the playing is what I think we need back.

Not to mention a lil discipline, but that's a whole nother thing.

Marshall is a talent. He's proven he's a good player. I think he'll bounce back after this rough season.

Comparing him to the other players listed above.. Do you think he shines more then most of them in his play... tho his name isn't broadcast nationally?!

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[quote name='Mr. Scot']Arguably? Taken a step back under Tim Lewis, which could be suggested of every other DB not named Chris Gamble.

I'm beginning to think the folks who suggested that the lack of PI calls may have been tied to a lack of aggression might have a point. Looking back at this season, how many times can you remember watching a DB jump a route? Certainly there were opportunities, especially against teams like the Saints.

I remember watching the Saints game and telling a friend "when they're passing like this, it can be a prime setup for one of your DBs to jump a route and take it all the way" but it didn't even look like they were trying, or even [I]thinking about it[/I] for that matter.

It made me wonder if they had been coached specifically not to do that.[/quote]

Aggressive play was lacking from the start of the 2nd half of the season in my eyes.

I mean Harris makes his living strip'n the ball out and hit'n people hard. when did that happen in the 2nd half minus that hit on Brandon Jacobs?

And we have talked to death the aggression of Peppers.. .or lack there of.

I mean Tyler Brayton I think made a huge step is showing he's not the scrub he looked like with the Raiders.

The motor for Beason is there. I think Davis is like 3/4 of what he was in the past this season.

We need something to change.. and we have that now I think with the change over of the D coaches... now let's hope it's a positive.

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I think he shines mostly on special teams.

This last year especially, his play as a nickle hasn't been even as good as his rookie season.

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[quote name='Alverez']Yeah... I'm not calling for him to be a starter, but technically he "is" a starter but only in the nickel package. Personally I think we've got some really good CB's Gamble has shown he's good. Lucas we know is good... but as Marshall this season (and Gamble some as well) they have been out of position, missed calls, and jumped or given up plays that shouldn't have happened.

Overall I think our defensive coaching shake up will be a good thing id the motivation and the heart are brought back. I honestly don't see a problem with the over all scheme, or style of play... but the heart for the playing is what I think we need back.

Not to mention a lil discipline, but that's a whole nother thing.

Marshall is a talent. He's proven he's a good player. I think he'll bounce back after this rough season.

Comparing him to the other players listed above.. Do you think he shines more then most of them in his play... tho his name isn't broadcast nationally?![/quote]
Marshall is hard to figure, honestly. He looked like a winner early on, but the past two seasons, not so much (again, the Lewis connection).

I've toyed with the notion of "what would happen" if they moved Charles Godfrey to his college position (CB) where there'd be less thinking and more reacting and moved the somewhat more cerebral Ken Lucas to the free safety spot.

In this scenario, you could have Marshall and Godfrey compete for the starting CB spot, with the guy who comes in second becoming the nickel.

That won't happen, of course, but it's rolled around in my head.

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