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#85 eViL jEsTeR

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:54 PM

what is it with everyone considering any #1 overall pick a "stop gap" player? you can't be serious. with the kind of money paid to #1 picks, especially QB's, if a QB is selected with the #1 pick it won't be for him be a stop gap player but to be a franchise player.

do you really believe hurney is thinking "Yeah, we'll draft newton first overall just to be a stop gap for a couple of years until we can get a real QB down the road."

what a waste of an amazing opportunity to have the #1 overall pick. take a player you want to have a huge impact on your team for the next decade, not a fill in for the next couple of years.

#86 rubberpantz

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:59 PM

bottom line is there's not ONE QB in this entire draft worth drafting #1 overall. not. one.

"Trade down and get him at number, blah..."

you gotta have someone to trade with and let's be honest, as weak as this draft is, can you see any team in such a dire need that they'd trade their 5-10 pick (or more realistically 10-20 pick) and a 2nd rounder just to move up to trade, "name your player"?

scouts dont know it all and some of them (kiper) are full of fail but i haven't read a single report from a reputable scout that says we (or any team) should pick newton at #1. in fact i have seen some that say he might not even be first ROUND talent.

#1 goes to an impact player at a position of need that can contribute immediately. that person is not cam newton.

#87 eViL jEsTeR

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 02:00 PM

There was debate about whether Clausen was even the best prospect in his class (as there is with Newton).


and newton doesn't even have a legit #1 overall in his class like clausen did in sam bradford which makes newton look even worse. if he falls out of the first round with no superstars ahead of him then that would be a worse fall than clausen had. because of the lack of interest in this qb field, he has a better shot to go in the first but if luck was in this draft, there's no question who would be the #1 QB taken and newton wouldn't be in the running at all. it's only because the top prospect dropped out that his name is even being mentioned and it's still not a consensus at that.

#88 nationsford

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 02:05 PM

what is it with everyone considering any #1 overall pick a "stop gap" player? you can't be serious. with the kind of money paid to #1 picks, especially QB's, if a QB is selected with the #1 pick it won't be for him be a stop gap player but to be a franchise player.

do you really believe hurney is thinking "Yeah, we'll draft newton first overall just to be a stop gap for a couple of years until we can get a real QB down the road."

what a waste of an amazing opportunity to have the #1 overall pick. take a player you want to have a huge impact on your team for the next decade, not a fill in for the next couple of years.


how would cam be a stop-gap?

#89 SmootsDaddy89

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 03:07 PM

Sure, go ahead, always love a good laugh. Show how little you know :)

We announced before he declared we were drafting him. There is virtually no way he dropped far at all. Even if we did backtrack he would have gone in the top 5 for sure.


I don't really see what this has to do with how he'll do in the pros but okay.

#90 PantherDude

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:06 PM

Amen. I'll also add a lot of these fans didnt become fans UNTIL the Fox era, so its all they know.


I'm sure you didn't became a fan either until Rodney Peete was the starting QB!! :P

Luck hasnt had a media day. Wont be at the combine and hasnt been thru the interview process. We dont know if he can read defenses on the next level. We dont know if he's tough enough to handle adversity on the next level. We dont know if last year was just a fluke, and he will struggle with less talent around him. Any comments made about Luck are strictly opinion and wishful thinking this point unless you're implying he's so good he's beyond this process, which is saying a lot because every QB in this league has gone thru it.


And yet, you think Newton will be better than Luck with how you diss Luck & never give him credit at all. Not to mention you mock some who think Luck is the answer & will be better than Newton. We don't know if Newton can read defense on the next level & if he is tough enough to handle adversity on the next level along with if he was a fluke for one year in college, but yet you think Newton is clearly the anwers already! But then lot of your so-call facts are clearly opinions instead. Kinda funny what you said about Luck there but you think Newton is better than all of that already like it's a fact.. Guess any black QBs we might be interest in the Draft, you think they all are winners in the NFL & better than Luck. :rofl:

Also, who care if Luck doesn't have a media day. He doesn't have to, even if he was to declared for the Draft if he didn't stay at Stanford. I want someone who is a player & a winner, not someone who is just a big name star.

Edited by PantherDude, 13 February 2011 - 04:08 PM.


#91 raleigh-panther

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:27 PM

If you think there's any comparison between Jimmy Clausen and Andrew Luck, .


While I always respect your opinions, there is no comparison between Clausen and Newton either.

Newton has the physcial stature and athleticism that Clausen will never have. Ask me if I think Newton is an upgrade over Clausen, absolutely, at least he can pull the ball down and run for his life if he needs to.

Trust me, I'm not getting hyped about any prospect after the Luck fiasco, but, the list of QBs the Panthers have passed on is both long, and sad. If this young man shows maturity and capability in his interviews, he will go in the top 5, again because of the physical stature and rare athleticism. Those are god-given and not teachable. The other things are. As for Clausen, I liked him in college, but, I'll say again, what bothered me, is when the pass was there to be made, with no pressure, all he had to do was hit the target, he could not do it, and I very much liked the boy at ND.

Net, Rivera and Shula have looked at the tape of him. I trust them to make the right selection.

To your other point about the race card, I do sometimes think that black QBs are held to a far different standard than white and for the record, I am white.
Not saying you are looking at it from a racist point of value at all; but, it is not hard to understand why KT and some of the other posters think as they do.

Think, what the reaction would have been to ole Big Ben, for example, if he had been black vs. white. His happy ass would be in jail right now, no question, as it should have been. No mea culpeas make up for sexual assault.

#92 SmootsDaddy89

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 08:44 PM

You can have a prejudice against a certain group without consciously saying, "I hate group X."

There is a HUGE stigma against black quarterbacks. If you don't think so, look at the knocks against Newton.

"He's a running QB." Well how many white running QBs are there?

"We don't know how intelligent he is." We don't know how intelligent any of the QBs are, and even the wonderlic isn't the end all be all. But I never hear this as a reason not to draft Gabbert or Mallett. Even though Mallett has probably killed half of his brain cells with alcohol by now. poo, Jimmy Clausen failed 6th grade. Cam didn't do that.

"He might be a Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young and not want to work hard!" Again, so could any other QB in the draft. But outside of people calling Gabbert fat, I've never heard this complaint lobbed at white quarterbacks.

Outside of "he was in a spread offense" (which didn't stop Sanchez and Bradford from being top 5 picks. Yes, I know Bradford wasn't in an exclusively spread offense, but he wasn't as "pro ready" as everyone thinks Luck is.) all of the negatives people throw against him are used EXCLUSIVELY against black qbs similar to Newton

I guess you could add "He'll be a project" to that list as well, but even Luck isn't going to come in his rookie year and play like Tom Brady.

My favorite is the people who are concerned because of Cecil Newton. Oh my god, a black male with a father who takes an active interest in his son's well-being. THE HORROR!


If you took Cam Newton's attributes and put them on a white QB, well, you'd pretty much have Andrew Luck in a spread offense, but at the least, a lot fewer people would have a problem with taking that dude #1 overall.

Edited by SmootsDaddy89, 13 February 2011 - 08:48 PM.


#93 rico6

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 08:49 PM

You can have a prejudice against a certain group without consciously saying, "I hate group X."

There is a HUGE stigma against black quarterbacks. If you don't think so, look at the knocks against Newton.

"He's a running QB." Well how many white running QBs are there?

"We don't know how intelligent he is." We don't know how intelligent any of the QBs are, and even the wonderlic isn't the end all be all. But I never hear this as a reason not to draft Gabbert or Mallett. Even though Mallett has probably killed half of his brain cells with alcohol by now. poo, Jimmy Clausen failed 6th grade. Cam didn't do that.

"He might be a Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young and not want to work hard!" Again, so could any other QB in the draft. But outside of people calling Gabbert fat, I've never heard this complaint lobbed at white quarterbacks.

Outside of "he was in a spread offense" (which didn't stop Sanchez and Bradford from being top 5 picks. Yes, I know Bradford wasn't in an exclusively spread offense, but he wasn't as "pro ready" as everyone thinks Luck is.) all of the negatives people throw against him are used EXCLUSIVELY against black qbs similar to Newton

I guess you could add "He'll be a project" to that list as well, but even Luck isn't going to come in his rookie year and play like Tom Brady.

My favorite is the people who are concerned because of Cecil Newton. Oh my god, a black male with a father who takes an active interest in his son's well-being. THE HORROR!


If you took Cam Newton's attributes and put them on a white QB, well, you'd pretty much have Andrew Luck in a spread offense, but at the least, a lot fewer people would have a problem with taking that dude #1 overall.


Excellent read.

+reps

#94 Mr. Scot

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:25 PM

You can have a prejudice against a certain group without consciously saying, "I hate group X."

There is a HUGE stigma against black quarterbacks. If you don't think so, look at the knocks against Newton.

"He's a running QB." Well how many white running QBs are there?

"We don't know how intelligent he is." We don't know how intelligent any of the QBs are, and even the wonderlic isn't the end all be all. But I never hear this as a reason not to draft Gabbert or Mallett. Even though Mallett has probably killed half of his brain cells with alcohol by now. poo, Jimmy Clausen failed 6th grade. Cam didn't do that.

"He might be a Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young and not want to work hard!" Again, so could any other QB in the draft. But outside of people calling Gabbert fat, I've never heard this complaint lobbed at white quarterbacks.

Outside of "he was in a spread offense" (which didn't stop Sanchez and Bradford from being top 5 picks. Yes, I know Bradford wasn't in an exclusively spread offense, but he wasn't as "pro ready" as everyone thinks Luck is.) all of the negatives people throw against him are used EXCLUSIVELY against black qbs similar to Newton

I guess you could add "He'll be a project" to that list as well, but even Luck isn't going to come in his rookie year and play like Tom Brady.

My favorite is the people who are concerned because of Cecil Newton. Oh my god, a black male with a father who takes an active interest in his son's well-being. THE HORROR!


If you took Cam Newton's attributes and put them on a white QB, well, you'd pretty much have Andrew Luck in a spread offense, but at the least, a lot fewer people would have a problem with taking that dude #1 overall.

Who on here is clamoring for Gabbert, Mallett or Locker?

If the only thing people have against Newton is his race, then why isn't anyone arguing for one of those guys?

#95 chef17

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 12:54 AM

You can have a prejudice against a certain group without consciously saying, "I hate group X."

There is a HUGE stigma against black quarterbacks. If you don't think so, look at the knocks against Newton.

"He's a running QB." Well how many white running QBs are there?

"We don't know how intelligent he is." We don't know how intelligent any of the QBs are, and even the wonderlic isn't the end all be all. But I never hear this as a reason not to draft Gabbert or Mallett. Even though Mallett has probably killed half of his brain cells with alcohol by now. poo, Jimmy Clausen failed 6th grade. Cam didn't do that.

"He might be a Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young and not want to work hard!" Again, so could any other QB in the draft. But outside of people calling Gabbert fat, I've never heard this complaint lobbed at white quarterbacks.

Outside of "he was in a spread offense" (which didn't stop Sanchez and Bradford from being top 5 picks. Yes, I know Bradford wasn't in an exclusively spread offense, but he wasn't as "pro ready" as everyone thinks Luck is.) all of the negatives people throw against him are used EXCLUSIVELY against black qbs similar to Newton

I guess you could add "He'll be a project" to that list as well, but even Luck isn't going to come in his rookie year and play like Tom Brady.

My favorite is the people who are concerned because of Cecil Newton. Oh my god, a black male with a father who takes an active interest in his son's well-being. THE HORROR!


If you took Cam Newton's attributes and put them on a white QB, well, you'd pretty much have Andrew Luck in a spread offense, but at the least, a lot fewer people would have a problem with taking that dude #1 overall.


People called The Golden Calf of Bristol a running QB and he's white :D