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Mayock on Gabbert


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#106 monstercat

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:41 PM

My thing is...you either take Newton or Gabbert at #1, or you most likely don't get a QB at all, and that probably goes for next year as well. I doubt we will have a realistic shot at Luck or Barkley, unless we trade away more picks to move up to the top 3 or 4 in the 2011 draft. Personally, I would much rather take a chance on a QB at #1 now, than to end up having to trade away more high draft picks next year.

Of course, we can also pin all of our hopes on JC and a career back up that nobody else wanted, but that's too depressing for me to even think much about.

#107 The Saltman

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:43 PM

Will April ever get here?

#108 nagai

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 06:45 PM

I have a serious question scot. What pick is Cam worthy of?? I keep hearing he isn't worthy of that pick and so what pick is he worthy of?


He is worthy of a place where they have a veteran QB starting so Cam can do the Aaron Rodgers thing and learn.

#109 panthers55

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 07:54 PM

My thing is...you either take Newton or Gabbert at #1, or you most likely don't get a QB at all, and that probably goes for next year as well. I doubt we will have a realistic shot at Luck or Barkley, unless we trade away more picks to move up to the top 3 or 4 in the 2011 draft. Personally, I would much rather take a chance on a QB at #1 now, than to end up having to trade away more high draft picks next year.

Of course, we can also pin all of our hopes on JC and a career back up that nobody else wanted, but that's too depressing for me to even think much about.


That's it really. If you want Newton-you want to make sure that we have some competition for Clausen because while we hope he improves in a big way, we aren't convinced he can do it. And you don't want to put all your eggs into picking a FA vet in the event that falls through or all the good ones aren't available. And you are looking for a long term solution instead of stop gap vet while you put off the decision for another year.

Those who don't want Newton or see him as too risky are really more satisfied with Clausen despite his struggles and think he can be the franchise guy. Or you want a veteran for now and just hope that things line up better next year to take a QB or that Clausen proves he is the one.

And then there is TRD who seems to dislike Clausen and Newton equally. I suppose he is hoping we don't bring in any competition for his guy Matt Moore whose chances of staying would be marginally better if Newton weren't here.

Whichever you believe largely colors your point if view. Like you I absolutely hated last year and want an upgrade in a huge way. I think we need to find someone in the draft and a vet so that we guarantee there will be plenty of competition. That somebody in the draft would be Newton. No one else is worth taking really. And the thought of standing pat is depressing indeed.

#110 rayzor

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 08:28 PM

Mayock is one of the most respected out there, garnering support from actual scouts and has turned down several jobs in the NFL.

He has access to one very important tool you don't, coaches tape.

same with a lot of the scouts that have said newton is the best...esp. guys like gil brandt.

brandt>>>mayock

#111 Tarheels23

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 10:59 PM

I certainly hope that you don't prejudge all of your college students before you have any facts or real information. That is simple prejudice whether it is intellectual or otherwise. As a college professor you should also be acutely aware that freshmen and sophomore all do dumb things and make mistakes. That is what happens when they are away from home for the first time. By the time they are seniors they have more of an awareness of what to do and make better decisions.

What you have said is simply your own prejudice and not supported by facts at all. He picked up Auburn's offense in a matter of months not years like most guys. Sure it was simple but what do you expect. His personal coach who is working with him every day has stated he is very bright, takes instruction well, and picks things very easily. Yeah this is the same guy who has worked with Roethlisburger and other professional quarterbacks. In fact all his coaches have said he is bright and picks things up quickly.

So it must be your own personal prejudice to continue to assert that he isn't intelligent or can't or won't pick things up when eveyone who works with him says the complete opposite??

Modern offense uses the shotgun more than ever before. There are several guys like Brees and Manning who use the shotgun up to 75% of the time. So the looking away is a red herring. Plus again you apparently forget that he was in the Auburn system for 1 year. In high school and at Binn he was in a pocket passer setting taking snaps from center. So yeah he can do all the things he didn't do at Auburn. It isn't as if he wouldn't have to work on those things at the pro level anyway given that the defenses are more complex and constantly switch even after the snap. Except for ours under Fox.

When people like you selectively pick Mayock while ignoring Whitfield or Brandt you show that you are the one with your mind made up who just selectively pick what fits their mindset already instead of being open to new things.

Pretty shotty for a professor who is supposed to be open to new ideas and things and willing to learn. Unless like some professors, you think you already know it all.



Well said! There's also something to be said for someone who's a winner. Oh, and what's to be said for College football if Auburn and Cam won the NC with such a simple system, and remember they won because of Cam, not in spite of.

#112 mountainpantherfan

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 02:14 AM

This is a review of Newton on NFL.com

Not proficient at going through his progressions or making NFL reads. Doesn't anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit. Despite athleticism, needs to improve his drop mechanics and the finer points of pocket mobility.


The bolded section is the most alarming to me. I've read a lot of analisys about Newton not going through progressions but if the tape is showing that he won't throw to a reciever unless they are in a window, that means Newton is more likely to resemble Clausen than Big Ben.

That really is a big negative and one that is hard to teach. I've actually said it many times that I thought Newton reminded me more of Steve Young than any other QB and just thinking back, Newton in Carolina could be as bad as Young was in Tampa. Newton may need to go to a West Coast Offense to be successful.

With that said look at the same review of Gabbert.

Trusts his arm too much and puts the ball in harm's way too often. Does not show good touch on passes over the middle and needs to learn to take a little velocity off certain throws. Struggles to throw an accurate deep ball. Late feeling pressure at times which neutralizes his very good mobility. Will need to learn a pro style offense.


Again, based on the type of offense we think Chud is going to run, Gabbert has a really bad compatiblity as well. His worst and most inaccurate throws are the long ball. Probably also more of an WCO type of QB or may be able to play in an EP system since he is given credit for being able to make great reads.

Find that QB that compares favorably with Phillip Rivers or Troy Aikman and then you will sell me on drafting that QB at #1 overall. Until then, I think other options would be better than Newton or Gabbert at this point.

#113 bornnraisedwhodat

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 02:56 AM

I hope u guys dont draft Cam Newton because I do not want to have to face that freakish dude twice a year. He will have his slumps but the guy is a beast. With good coaching and a good scheme, he could be a freakin monster. Please, go dlineman!:D

#114 PanthersGuy74

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 04:27 AM

The Panthers would be making a huge mistake by drafting Blaine Gabbert.

#115 teeray

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 09:59 AM

Experts would say top ten or top five, which sounds reasonable to me. Just not to us in our situation.

We already have two young prospects on roster, one of whom was taken with our top pick last season. We don't need any more youth.

Better to sign or trade for a couple of veteran free agents (maybe Matt Moore being one) and use the number one on another need position.


I politely disagree on your QB plan. But i admit that is a serious possibility. My personal belief is that if a guy is top ten he is worthy of the number one pick.

:)

#116 teeray

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 10:00 AM

he does but how many times is that going to happen on the next level. not many. it's about how you handle pressure when that big 6'5 275 de is breathing down your back how are you going to respond.

when it's 3' 8 and you need a first to keep the drive moving for a game winning field goal. are you willing to man up and delivery a strike or turn clausenisque.


My concern as well. But that is something any QB will have to contend with.

From the games I have seen, whenever the kid even thinks he is being pressured he panics.

Edited by teeray, 26 February 2011 - 10:04 AM.


#117 MHS831

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 10:16 AM

Well said! There's also something to be said for someone who's a winner. Oh, and what's to be said for College football if Auburn and Cam won the NC with such a simple system, and remember they won because of Cam, not in spite of.


So you two (Panther 55) are qualified to tell a college psychology professor that his concerns about a player with so many red flags are unjustifed and do not reflect character issues that are problematic (historically) in the NFL? AM I hearing you right? And you have enough about me in my comments to accuse me of being prejudice?

Are you kidding or just dumbasses?

#118 teeray

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 10:43 AM

So you two (Panther 55) are qualified to tell a college psychology professor that his concerns about a player with so many red flags are unjustifed and do not reflect character issues that are problematic (historically) in the NFL? AM I hearing you right? And you have enough about me in my comments to accuse me of being prejudice?

Are you kidding or just dumbasses?


I respect your professorial endeavors. I wold just say that some of these red flags are manufactured in my opinion.

I also comes down to who you believe.

The only one that even really concerns me is the laptop thing. It comes down to whether you believe that he bought a stolen laptop or stole a laptop.

But then he has made strides to repent for that mistake. That is why he has been going to the elementary school and working with those kids.

The cheating allegations are just that allegations. Cam continues to say that he wasn't facing expulsion and he wasn't kicked off the team. He left bc he wanted to play and he was buried behind The Golden Calf of Bristol.

Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

The NCAA does a thorough job with their investigations. They don't believe he had any knowledge of the pay for play scheme. A lot of media types have said that is impossible but they also don't have access to the information gathered by the NCAA. In other words, it is the media types opinion although there is no evidence to that he did.

So some of this stuff is over blown, poorly reported, or even possibly false.

He definitely has some explaining to do and it will likely come down to simply. "do you believe him". Many will and many won't. But it will eventually come down to whether Hurney and Rivera believe him.

#119 MHS831

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 11:48 AM

I respect your professorial endeavors. I wold just say that some of these red flags are manufactured in my opinion.

I also comes down to who you believe.

The only one that even really concerns me is the laptop thing. It comes down to whether you believe that he bought a stolen laptop or stole a laptop.

But then he has made strides to repent for that mistake. That is why he has been going to the elementary school and working with those kids.

The cheating allegations are just that allegations. Cam continues to say that he wasn't facing expulsion and he wasn't kicked off the team. He left bc he wanted to play and he was buried behind The Golden Calf of Bristol.

Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

The NCAA does a thorough job with their investigations. They don't believe he had any knowledge of the pay for play scheme. A lot of media types have said that is impossible but they also don't have access to the information gathered by the NCAA. In other words, it is the media types opinion although there is no evidence to that he did.

So some of this stuff is over blown, poorly reported, or even possibly false.

He definitely has some explaining to do and it will likely come down to simply. "do you believe him". Many will and many won't. But it will eventually come down to whether Hurney and Rivera believe him.


Teeray,

He didn't know the laptop was stolen, he was accused of cheating and left school, he didn't know his father was pimping him, etc. Right. Where there is smoke...

Why is everyone so willing to dismiss years of questionable antics but accept a few months of good football? He is not what he appears to be. Without talking to him, I would say the red flags are real. They need to be investigated. Since your info is limited, how can you and others endorse him so religiously? Do you want to know? I have been around college kids a lot. I would be surprised if he passes the interview with the Panthers.

I admire loyalty too. And the only reason I mentioned my profession is because I was discussing things I know a lot about and a few pinheads decided to take shots at me personally. I am surprised they have yet to respond. They are probably at the ER telling doctors how to treat patients before heading over to the courthouse to consult a few defense attorneys.

#120 MHS831

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 11:53 AM

This is a review of Newton on NFL.com



The bolded section is the most alarming to me. I've read a lot of analisys about Newton not going through progressions but if the tape is showing that he won't throw to a reciever unless they are in a window, that means Newton is more likely to resemble Clausen than Big Ben.

That really is a big negative and one that is hard to teach. I've actually said it many times that I thought Newton reminded me more of Steve Young than any other QB and just thinking back, Newton in Carolina could be as bad as Young was in Tampa. Newton may need to go to a West Coast Offense to be successful.

With that said look at the same review of Gabbert.



Again, based on the type of offense we think Chud is going to run, Gabbert has a really bad compatiblity as well. His worst and most inaccurate throws are the long ball. Probably also more of an WCO type of QB or may be able to play in an EP system since he is given credit for being able to make great reads.

Find that QB that compares favorably with Phillip Rivers or Troy Aikman and then you will sell me on drafting that QB at #1 overall. Until then, I think other options would be better than Newton or Gabbert at this point.


Good stuff. Basically, you are (like me) afraid of these QBs in the first round. Who do you like, if any?


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