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Fact checking Fluffo


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#16 Fiz

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:22 AM

I agree with the infrastructure upgrades and additions in the Stimulus Package.

But there is still waaaaay too much bullsh*t in that bill. Pork City.


i actually looked through all of it and the only thing I could see as pork was like the 8 trillion designated for furniture in the Homeland Security building.

please point out things you think are pork

#17 Matt Foley

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:47 AM

No, not really.

Though it is nice to hear a press conference where the leader of the free world has a working knowledge of the English language.


Agree with you there.

#18 Scrumtrilescent

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:52 AM

Until he's asked about Joe Biden.lol

I believe we have our comedic material for the next 4-8 years.

#19 Carolina Husker

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:55 AM

i actually looked through all of it and the only thing I could see as pork was like the 8 trillion designated for furniture in the Homeland Security building.

please point out things you think are pork


How's this?

$400 million for research into global warming.

$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere.

$650 million for coupons to help consumers convert their TV sets from analog to digital, part of the digital TV conversion.

$600 million to buy a new fleet of cars for federal employees and government departments.


$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.


$21 million to re-sod the National Mall, which suffered heavy use during the Inauguration.


$2.25 billion for national parks. This item has sparked calls for an investigation, because the chief lobbyist of the National Parks Association is the son of Rep. David R. Obey, D-Wisc. The $2,25 billion is about equal to the National Park Service's entire annual budget. The Washington Times reports it is a threefold increase over what was originally proposed for parks in the stimulus bill. Obey is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.


$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.


$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. $4.19 billion to stave off foreclosures via the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. The bill allows nonprofits to compete with cities and states for $3.44 billion of the money, which means a substantial amount of it will be captured by ACORN, the controversial activist group currently under federal investigation for vote fraud. Another $750 million would be exclusively reserved for nonprofits such as ACORN ? meaning cities and states are barred from receiving that money. Sen. David Vitter, R-La., charges the money could appear to be a "payoff" for the partisan political activities community groups in the last election cycle.


$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department.


$32 billion for a "smart electricity grid to minimize waste.


$87 billion of Medicaid funds, to aid states.


$13 billion to repair and weatherize public housing, help the homeless, repair foreclosed homes.


$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment.


$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the cost of college tuition.


$20 billion over five years for an expanded food stamp program.


I'm not necessarily against all these things, but to portray them as a way to create jobs and consumer spending is laughable. It's a way to get government programs passed surreptitiously.

#20 Fiz

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:56 AM

Reporter: President Obama, what do you think about Joe Biden's latest gaff?

<clips of Biden on a profanity laced tirade at children's softball game>

Obama: Jesus Christ-

/obama lights cigarette

#21 Matt Foley

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:01 AM

How's this?



I'm not necessarily against all these things, but to portray them as a way to create jobs and consumer spending is laughable. It's a way to get government programs passed surreptitiously.


He said give him one example of pork, not 20.

#22 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:02 AM

i actually looked through all of it and the only thing I could see as pork was like the 8 trillion designated for furniture in the Homeland Security building.

please point out things you think are pork


Not my list, but here's a few things:

Provisions of the bill that many legislators are questioning:


$1 billion for Amtrak, which hasn’t earned a profit in four decades.


$2 billion to help subsidize child care.


$400 million for research into global warming.


$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere.


$650 million for coupons to help consumers convert their TV sets from analog to digital, part of the digital TV conversion.


$600 million to buy a new fleet of cars for federal employees and government departments.


$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.


$21 million to re-sod the National Mall, which suffered heavy use during the Inauguration.


$2.25 billion for national parks. This item has sparked calls for an investigation, because the chief lobbyist of the National Parks Association is the son of Rep. David R. Obey, D-Wisc. The $2,25 billion is about equal to the National Park Service’s entire annual budget. The Washington Times reports it is a threefold increase over what was originally proposed for parks in the stimulus bill. Obey is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.


$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.


$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. $4.19 billion to stave off foreclosures via the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. The bill allows nonprofits to compete with cities and states for $3.44 billion of the money, which means a substantial amount of it will be captured by ACORN, the controversial activist group currently under federal investigation for vote fraud. Another $750 million would be exclusively reserved for nonprofits such as ACORN – meaning cities and states are barred from receiving that money. Sen. David Vitter, R-La., charges the money could appear to be a “payoff” for the partisan political activities community groups in the last election cycle.


$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department.


$32 billion for a “smart electricity grid to minimize waste.


$87 billion of Medicaid funds, to aid states.


$53.4 billion for science facilities, high speed Internet, and miscellaneous energy and environmental programs.


$13 billion to repair and weatherize public housing, help the homeless, repair foreclosed homes.


$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment.


$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the cost of college tuition.


$20 billion over five years for an expanded food stamp program.


http://www.newsmax.c.../29/176503.html

I'm sure it can be argued that not all of this is "pork" and it really depends on your perspective, but let's get real... they're spending money that the gov't has to borrow on things like sod and TV converters when the public school that my wife teaches at can't buy paper????

#23 Carolina Husker

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:04 AM

Nice list.

#24 Scrumtrilescent

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:06 AM

$2 billion to consolidate Husker and NC's lists into one cohesive superlist.

#25 cookinwithgas

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:09 AM

Well at least it has been determined that if your wife needs it, it can't be pork.

Didn't the car fleet thing get halved? - Some of the more questionable items were in fact removed, and this is the way that bills are in fact written and negotiated.

Like I've said, I am not a big fan of this project, but I know nothing about what it may or may not do. But the idea as I understand it is to pump money into the economy, and with the Dems in control, more Dem favored stuff will be paid for - just like when Bush took office the rich got tax cuts, and defense spending went through the roof.

#26 Fiz

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:20 AM

I'm actually going to put effort into this response. I don't know why, because no one will give me the courtesy in return. however im doing this in good faith because you seem like someone who actually wants to be informed and doesn't just parrot talking points, unlike low information posters like sea monster, venom, jase or hatr.
[quote]$400 million for research into global warming.[/quote]
I understand that a lot of you like to believe that global warming is simply a huge scam designed to have money funneled into the "big science" lobby and that the mass pumping of CO2, which everyone knows is a green house gas, isn't causing global warming and climate change. however, scientific consensus is not on that side, and luckily we have a president now who doesn't pander to lunatic fringe Luddites.

From a prevention standpoint, any dollar spent on global warming now prevents us from having to spend untold amounts at some point in the future when we would start having to triage cities. Also, research stimulates jobs, just like defense spending on new weapons. The bonus with research into green technologies is that you create something that's actually useful and will give back, unlike weapons research which is basically a giant money sink.
[quote]
$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere.[/quote]
See above.
[quote]
$650 million for coupons to help consumers convert their TV sets from analog to digital, part of the digital TV conversion.[/quote]
i really don't understand why people just can't buy tvs on their own. im sure the aarp voters have a lot to do with this.
[quote]
$600 million to buy a new fleet of cars for federal employees and government departments.[/quote]
these are green cars that would get much better gas mileage and save money in the long run. This is a money saving measure.
[quote]
$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.[/quote]
americans already spend more money per capita than any other nation in the world on healthcare tax. One of the major contributor to that number are smoking related diseases, such as heart disease, emphysema, cancer, etc.

Anything that could diminish the numbers of smokers is a net gain for tax payers.
[quote]$21 million to re-sod the National Mall, which suffered heavy use during the Inauguration.[/quote]
if they just gave 21 million to the landscapers, white people would would be doing the work, and the companies that provided the sod, to "stimulate" the economy, would you be in favor of it then? At least this way we get something back in return.

I mean I don't know if you've been to DC recently but on the scale of world capitols in regards to attractiveness it's somewhere around beautiful downtown grozny.
[quote]
$2.25 billion for national parks. This item has sparked calls for an investigation, because the chief lobbyist of the National Parks Association is the son of Rep. David R. Obey, D-Wisc. The $2,25 billion is about equal to the National Park Service's entire annual budget. The Washington Times reports it is a threefold increase over what was originally proposed for parks in the stimulus bill. Obey is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.[/quote]
if foul play was involved the appropriate people should face the consequences.
[quote]$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.[/quote]
once again, in regards to health, preventative medicine and information is ALWAYS a net gain.
[quote]$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. [/quote]
50 million is an absolute pittance, it should be more.

due to the capitalist nature of our society, art has had to commodify itself to get by, and as a result has severely handcuffed itself in regards to what it could do.

I could literally make a thread about this, due to what i got my degree in, where I'm fairly confident I could convince all of you that funding the arts is never a waste, but that would take a lot of energy.

Let me put it this way. The last time the government, during the WPA, seriously subsidized the arts, people like Orson Welles and John Steinbeck were given their chances to do work and be discovered. Can you imagine an American experience without citizen Kain, or Of Mice and Men? Or to put this another way, do you really think that since then, Welles and Steinbeck haven't paid back whatever money was put into the entire arts program during that time?

[quote]$4.19 billion to stave off foreclosures via the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. The bill allows nonprofits to compete with cities and states for $3.44 billion of the money, which means a substantial amount of it will be captured by ACORN, the controversial activist group currently under federal investigation for vote fraud. Another $750 million would be exclusively reserved for nonprofits such as ACORN ? meaning cities and states are barred from receiving that money. Sen. David Vitter, R-La., charges the money could appear to be a "payoff" for the partisan political activities community groups in the last election cycle.[/quote]
I'm sorry but the entire hoopla about ACORN was manufactured nonsense that republican voters afraid of black people bought hook, line, and sinker. Remember that ACORN is brought up almost every single election cycle by republicans, because unregistered voters within cities vote democratic almost 80% of the time. Not a single fake voter was allowed to vote. corruption is part of its system, just like everything else in the world, and it has the facilities to catch it.

and if your argument against this is that some of the money could go to a nonprofit that you've been convinced is some fraudulent black vote producing machine, then I'm sorry it's not a very good argument.
[quote]$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department.[/quote]
f*ck this buy sh*t at ikea
[quote]
$32 billion for a "smart electricity grid to minimize waste.[/quote]
I'm just going to assume this is one of those you don't have a problem with.
[quote]
$87 billion of Medicaid funds, to aid states.[/quote]
states are running out of money for this. it has to be done, and only a cynical person would call this pork.

unless you'd prefer people with signs of type 2 diabetes go untreated until they collapse in diabetic shock and have to be treated, far more expensively, on the taxpayers dime, just to name one example.
[quote]$13 billion to repair and weatherize public housing, help the homeless, repair foreclosed homes.[/quote]
weatherizing and repairing would ideally make them more energy efficient, saving money in the long run. the money to do so would go to either private contracted used by the city or city workers.

foreclosed homes certainly aren't going to sell if they look like sh*t now are they. once again, those are jobs that contractors get to do, so I'm not sure what the problem is. It doesn't get more mainstreet than a dude laying dry wall.
[quote]$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment.[/quote]
buying off old equipment helps people by new! CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME!
[quote]$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the cost of college tuition.[/quote]
surely you don't have a problem with this.
[quote]
$20 billion over five years for an expanded food stamp program. [/quote]
with the economy the way it is, states are running out of money to pay for their food stamps programs as more people apply. it sucks but it has to be done.

Edited by Fiz, 10 February 2009 - 11:26 AM.


#27 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:20 AM

Well at least it has been determined that if your wife needs it, it can't be pork.

Huh??? Pretty sure I specified that it was the school that was out of money, not my wife.

Didn't the car fleet thing get halved? - Some of the more questionable items were in fact removed, and this is the way that bills are in fact written and negotiated.

Like I've said, I am not a big fan of this project, but I know nothing about what it may or may not do. But the idea as I understand it is to pump money into the economy, and with the Dems in control, more Dem favored stuff will be paid for - just like when Bush took office the rich got tax cuts, and defense spending went through the roof.


Obviously something has to be done, and I understand that bills don't get passed in their original form and that some negotiation and give and take is necessary, but politicians of every ilk try and milk these things for their own personal benefit and that's just sad.

#28 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:23 AM

Fiz - I skimmed over your very long response. I think many of us do not quarrel with the worthiness of much of what you have outlined, we just don't see the "stimulus" and job creation of those programs. They need to be somewhere else ... not in a stimulus bill.

#29 Zod

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:25 AM

many of you also thought dubya was tops.

Clearly many of you should let others make decisions.


:)

#30 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:26 AM

many of you also thought dubya was tops.

Clearly many of you should let others make decisions.


:)


You're surely not talking to me ....

Obviously, though, you're happy to let Obama create an even larger government that can meet all of your needs.


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