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#31 rodeo

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:26 AM

Fiz - I skimmed over your very long response. I think many of us do not quarrel with the worthiness of much of what you have outlined, we just don't see the "stimulus" and job creation of those programs. They need to be somewhere else ... not in a stimulus bill.


what difference does it make?

#32 Matt Foley

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:27 AM

Fiz - I skimmed over your very long response. I think many of us do not quarrel with the worthiness of much of what you have outlined, we just don't see the "stimulus" and job creation of those programs. They need to be somewhere else ... not in a stimulus bill.


/thread

#33 The Link

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:27 AM

How about you loan it to small businesses or big businesses? That's how you create jobs. Reagan was the entrepeneur's best friend. Obama is his enemy.


Go back into the sea...

#34 rodeo

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:28 AM

/thread


so basically "i like what he's doing but i don't like the name he gave it."

that's not petty at all!

#35 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:29 AM

what difference does it make?


What I should have said is that those items need to go through the appropriate process ... to be voted on according to their own merits and not included in this huge bill. It makes a lot of difference, actually.

#36 Matt Foley

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:29 AM

what difference does it make?


Reopen thread. Obama said it himself last night. Creating jobs is the number one issue right now. People get jobs, they can start spending again, the economy's heartrate starts up again, THEN we can worry about other stuff.

What if this were a Republican stimulus bill and in it were all kinds of military projects?

#37 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:29 AM

so basically "i like what he's doing but i don't like the name he gave it."

that's not petty at all!


Nope ... not that at all.

#38 Fiz

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:30 AM

Fiz - I skimmed over your very long response. I think many of us do not quarrel with the worthiness of much of what you have outlined, we just don't see the "stimulus" and job creation of those programs. They need to be somewhere else ... not in a stimulus bill.

i work with specifics. I work with examples.

i don't operate with wide ranging, blunt, useless generalizations.

if you have a specific problem, list it.

like for example do you know that the arts employ 1.3 million people in this country? that pitiful 50 million would be going to those american workers.

to put this into context, an f-22 costs 350 million a piece to purchase. the f-22 doesn't even work well and has no practical use. know how many people make those? 25,000.

#39 rodeo

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:31 AM

Reopen thread. Obama said it himself last night. Creating jobs is the number one issue right now. People get jobs, they can start spending again, the economy's heartrate starts up again, THEN we can worry about other stuff.

What if this were a Republican stimulus bill and in it were all kinds of military projects?


he'll likely create more jobs with this bill than bush did in 8 years. even including the new branch of government he made.

#40 rodeo

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:32 AM

this should be renamed the fiz owns everyone thread.

#41 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:36 AM

i work with specifics. I work with examples.

i don't operate with wide ranging, blunt, useless generalizations.

if you have a specific problem, list it.

like for example do you know that the arts employ 1.3 million people in this country? that pitiful 50 million would be going to those american workers.

to put this into context, an f-22 costs 350 million a piece to purchase. the f-22 doesn't even work well and has no practical use. know how many people make those? 25,000.


I'm all for most of the projects within the bill that actually CREATE jobs and STIMULATE the economy ....

Is the $50 million to the arts going to create jobs?

There's loads of pork in the bill that has absolutely nothing to do with creating jobs or stimulating the economy ... those need to be debated separately on their own merits. Instead, the Democrats have thrown all the pork projects they can find in the bill, then use their fear tactics to create the desperation required to get it passed quickly.

#42 rodeo

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:39 AM

There's loads of pork in the bill that has absolutely nothing to do with creating jobs or stimulating the economy ... those need to be debated separately on their own merits. Instead, the Democrats have thrown all the pork projects they can find in the bill, then use their fear tactics to create the desperation required to get it passed quickly.


he asked for examples. just repeating "there's tons of pork" doesn't actually mean anything.

#43 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:47 AM

he asked for examples. just repeating "there's tons of pork" doesn't actually mean anything.


You are one of the most dense people I've ever encountered.

#44 Carolina Husker

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:54 AM

A lot of that sh*t in the list I just copied and pasted, so I don't necessarily agree with all of it, and I took out some of the things that NC biscuit has in his because I agree with them. My issue with the list is relevance and necessity. A lot of that sh*t just needs to flat out wait until we can afford some of these fringe amenities and government programs.

I'm actually going to put effort into this response. I don't know why, because no one will give me the courtesy in return. however im doing this in good faith because you seem like someone who actually wants to be informed and doesn't just parrot talking points, unlike low information posters like sea monster, venom, jase or hatr.

...50 million is an absolute pittance, it should be more.

sucks but it has to be done.


Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with those things in theory. I am not a "Global Warming is FAKE!" guy; I would love to see us as a nation become "more green."

I took out some of the bullet points from my original list because I agree with them, particularly this one:

$53.4 billion for science facilities, high speed Internet, and miscellaneous energy and environmental programs.

because that could open up the possibility for a huge technological boon in areas that were previously too expensive to upgrade infrastructure.

Some of the points you've outlined I could agree with. It's hard to really say as neither of us are macro economists. But IMO, when you have an economy heading into a depression, whatever positive effects can be achieved by something like

$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases

is a long term goal at best. We as a country have a limited and dwindling amount of liquid cash to use. And what we have is weighted by a hefty interest rate from the Chinese, so if we have it, we better spend it on things that create jobs immediately and get people off the nation's dole.

$400 million for research into global warming

needs to wait unless it is creating loads and loads of blue collar jobs. If it does that, then I'm all for it. Same with this

$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere.

. If it means new equipment is needed and workers can get back into factories immediately, then I'm for it. If not, put it on the back burner.

As they say, it's time to get "lean and mean." I deal with the realities of this all the time at work. There are certain things I have to get used to now that were never an issue in the past. Everyone is tightening their belt. Non-necessities are non-negotiable right now. Things that don't have immediate return are discarded

$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.

I can't see how this is a necessity right now at all.

You make very good points, but I think perspective is needed. A lot of those things are nice, but not necessary, and as it stands now, my definition of "necessary" is "will this create jobs?"

#45 Matt Foley

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:58 AM

this should be renamed the fiz owns everyone thread.


Or the Rodeo wants in Fiz's pants really bad thread.


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