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FYI on the Newton Debate


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#226 TheRealDeal

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:12 PM

However there are some posters (not you, Mav, or TRD) that make comments like hes a thug, character issues, Scam artist, and those are not reasonable arguements. Even though Cam supporters dont agree with a lot what you say. You actually have more class than those REAL Cam haters


First time I've been brought up in a non negative post

:party:

#227 teeray

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:16 PM

But you are bias. You are bias to the fact that these QBs are not worthy of the number one pick. Your bias isn't about Cam per se but about this QB class.

And you defend that point of view very hard.

And honestly I think you have gotten caught up on the same game that everyone has (including me) and that is we are standing our ground so hard that we are willing to go way off to left field to defend our position or go way out to right field to make a point against the opposition.

We all get caught up in it. I totally agree with you that I wish it didn't divulge into calling each other racists or irrational nut huggers. That is when it gets to silly land and a line needs to be drawn.

But hey in 4 weeks it will be all over and we can find something else to fight about. :lol:

#228 teeray

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:17 PM

The thing is, me, Mr. Scot, and TRD are often singled out as "the haters." There's been posts actually naming each of us. Heh.


Hater. :)

#229 teeray

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:19 PM

First time I've been brought up in a non negative post

:party:


While we are all being nice. There was a time the other day when I almost didn't hate you TRD. :grouphug:

#230 Mr. Scot

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:25 PM

But you are bias. You are bias to the fact that these QBs are not worthy of the number one pick. Your bias isn't about Cam per se but about this QB class.

And you defend that point of view very hard.

And honestly I think you have gotten caught up on the same game that everyone has (including me) and that is we are standing our ground so hard that we are willing to go way off to left field to defend our position or go way out to right field to make a point against the opposition.

We all get caught up in it. I totally agree with you that I wish it didn't divulge into calling each other racists or irrational nut huggers. That is when it gets to silly land and a line needs to be drawn.

But hey in 4 weeks it will be all over and we can find something else to fight about. :lol:

Little definition of terms might help here.

Not wanting a QB or not thinking any of the current QB crop is worth the number one isn't a bias. It's an opinion.

"Bias" would indicate something personal and/or unfair. None of that applies here. This just happens to be what we think. And it's a perfectly valid option.

We could be wrong, but I don't think we are. Eventually, we'll know for sure.

#231 TheRealDeal

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:26 PM

While we are all being nice. There was a time the other day when I almost didn't hate you TRD. :grouphug:


Take solace in knowing there isn't a post of yours I read that I don't hate

:D

#232 teeray

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:40 PM

Little definition of terms might help here.

Not wanting a QB or not thinking any of the current QB crop is worth the number one isn't a bias. It's an opinion.

"Bias" would indicate something personal and/or unfair. None of that applies here. This just happens to be what we think. And it's a perfectly valid option.

We could be wrong, but I don't think we are. Eventually, we'll know for sure.


There comes a time where an opinion can eventually lead to bias and I believe we have both crossed that threshold the last couple of days.

But I think your opinion is very valid. Frankly there is only one QB I would even consider with our pick. But if we go Gabbert I won't cry.

But I have stayed pretty consistent with my picks and they are Cam, PP, and Dareus. But I trust Hurney and the famous "process" and despite where you may feel my loyalties lie I will be pretty excited about whoever we pick.

#233 Cavscout

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:47 PM

Hurney already said that having no rookie camps wont affect drafting a QB and he will be drafting QB more for the future of franchise


While it may not affect who the team will select...it will have an affect on their development in their first year.

#234 Mr. Scot

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 12:03 AM

There comes a time where an opinion can eventually lead to bias and I believe we have both crossed that threshold the last couple of days.

But I think your opinion is very valid. Frankly there is only one QB I would even consider with our pick. But if we go Gabbert I won't cry.

But I have stayed pretty consistent with my picks and they are Cam, PP, and Dareus. But I trust Hurney and the famous "process" and despite where you may feel my loyalties lie I will be pretty excited about whoever we pick.

My opinion on who to pick wavers on an annual basis.

I research one guy and think we should go with him, then I research someone else and change my mind, then a report comes out on another guy...etc etc

This year, I know I don't want a QB, WR or DE, so my choices are going back and forth among the other guys. It's been Patrick Peterson for a bit, but the pay-for-play thing may well move me back to Marcell Dareus.

By Draft Day, I generally have settled on one or two players.

(who usually don't wind up being the ones we draft) :(

#235 fam4life09

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 10:15 AM

That's my favorite option on the QB front right now, though how much of a possibility it actually is would be a big question mark.

If we stay at #1, I'd prefer Peterson or Dareus. I could live with Fairley.

Don't really want A J Green because, like the QB slot, I think we need experience, not more youth.


(Why we do not need a defensive player)

There is hope: The Panthers actually fielded a playoff-caliber defense in 2010, at least according to the measures we use at ColdHardFootballFacts.com. They were No. 12, for example, in Defensive Passer Rating, our measure of each team's ability to stifle opposing quarterbacks. For some perspective, the 14-2 Patriots were No. 13 in Defensive Passer Rating. The 13-3 Falcons were No. 14 in Defensive Passer Rating.The Panthers were also No. 12 in what we call the Defensive Hog Index, a measure of each team's defensive front. And they were a top 10 unit in run defense, surrendering just 3.94 yards per attempt on the ground last year.

#236 KBRed

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 11:55 AM

Posted Image

#237 Highlandfire

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 12:35 PM

Lemme put to words what some in the Pro-Newton crowd seem unable to fathom regarding the Anti-Newton crowd:

- We don't hate him. In fact, we have no personal feelings about him at all. He's just another football player.
- We have no desire to see him fail or have tragedy befall him. Why should we? What would it benefit us?
- We don't care that he's black. In fact, there's a load of white guys most of us don't want either.
- We simply think, for football reasons, that he's not worth the Panthers taking him with the #1 overall pick.

It really is that simple.

Now if you want to argue that he is worth it, well and good, as long as you bring football logic to the discussion. When, instead, you throw out stuff like "you hate him", "you're racist" or "you don't care about winning" or any other such personal argument, you don't help your case.

In fact, the only thing you actually do accomplish by saying that stuff is to make yourselves look really stupid :frown2:

The truth is that if Newton is drafted here, those of us who were against it happening will stand behind the choice and hope that we were wrong. Nobody's leaving the fanbase in protest because they drafted Cam Newton, and no one's going to hope that he fails or gets hurt. Quite the opposite, we'll hope for his success because that's what'll be best for the team.

If he isn't drafted, then the vast majority of us won't really care what happens to him - good or bad - because he won't be a Panther.

And that's pretty much all there is to it. I'm not sure why some find that so difficult to understand :nonod:


Post of the year to date

#238 DOUBLETROUBLE33

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:38 PM

Cam Newton = Very quick release while still possessing a cannon for an arm = Great QB

Add in the fact that he has amazing mobility and is 6'6 we will regret not taking him. Watch the film fellas.

If we stay at #1 we should take Cam but I have no problem with trading down and taking the BVP.

#239 DOUBLETROUBLE33

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:40 PM

And I forgot to mention he only played against the best college football players in the country since he was in the SEC and still went straight to win the National Championship with NO receivers worth a dang

#240 Mr. Scot

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:46 PM

(Why we do not need a defensive player)

There is hope: The Panthers actually fielded a playoff-caliber defense in 2010, at least according to the measures we use at ColdHardFootballFacts.com. They were No. 12, for example, in Defensive Passer Rating, our measure of each team's ability to stifle opposing quarterbacks. For some perspective, the 14-2 Patriots were No. 13 in Defensive Passer Rating. The 13-3 Falcons were No. 14 in Defensive Passer Rating.The Panthers were also No. 12 in what we call the Defensive Hog Index, a measure of each team's defensive front. And they were a top 10 unit in run defense, surrendering just 3.94 yards per attempt on the ground last year.

Is our defense better than our offense? yes, but it has a glaring hole at the DT spot and could stand to be stronger at the corner spot opposite Gamble.

As far as offensive picks, a rookie QB may help down the road but does nothing for us right now. Neither does a receiver make sense because we're already young enough (arguably too young) at that position.

The best immediate help available is on the defensive side.