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Decertification


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#376 mav1234

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 06:49 PM

actually for the NBA there is already a lockout predicted across the board. Sure, the NBPA may not decertify but they have already said they don't need to make concessions and both sides are preparing for a lockout... which could just be talk, but amusingly enough, people thought it was the NFL which would have labor peace and the NBA that would have a lockout.

The Union basically handcuffed itself. They could have continued negotiations, reviewed what the owners had asked for and perhaps in time worked free more and more financial information... Instead, they have basically stuck to the same single request and refused to negotiate beyond that despite owners concessions. I think that saying the union was handcuffed by owners is incorrect; now, whether or not their obstinance regarding having the books opened is a good idea or not is another case entirely... but they did have other options than to decertify.

In a week deadline extension, the owners revised just about every single demand they had and even accepted many of the players requests entirely. They finally supplied some information, but apparently not enough. That was in a week. Now, it's possible in the closed door sessions the NFL did say that this is the last offer you're going to get, take it or leave it... but neither said has really said that, despite the various leaks during the process.

I dunno. I do see the players side, but I just feel like they walked out before they had to.

#377 sml1950

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 07:36 PM

1) I think the only guy in the universe who has said the NFL is losing money is our esteemed owner who stated "And we have a negative cash flow of $200 million." I reiterate our owner is either delusional or a liar. As riddel has astutely pointed out union law states that if the owners are claiming financial hardship then they have a legal duty to open the books. I am guessing the owners lawyers were on the phone to JR to zip it within 8 minutes after .


EVERYTHING that the owners are saying to the press has been reviewed, vetted and agreed upon by the league lawyers. To say that Richardson is a loose cannon, firing unsubstantiated salvos at the union is farcical. He was chosen by the other owners to be one of their negotiators because he is low key and level headed. Richardson is like EF Hutton, when he talks, you better listen.

#378 Happy Panther

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 08:47 PM

At the same time he is the only guy who has claimed that the league is losing money which may trigger various legal problems.

If you think the other owners told him to go and lie in a national press conference for negotiation tactics then... I disagree.

#379 Happy Panther

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 08:50 PM

EVERYTHING that the owners are saying to the press has been reviewed, vetted and agreed upon by the league lawyers.


If you think the owners or lawyers signed off on his Jan 4 press conference you are on acid.

#380 mav1234

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 09:04 PM

well, lawyers might not have, but the other owners did.. or at least, Goodell did.

But a source close to the situation said that Goodell had knowledge of what Richardson planned to say and didn't discourage it.

from http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=5987719

#381 sml1950

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 09:15 PM

Actually on antacid after trying to stomach you're post.

I expect you know the difference between cash-flow and profits. Businesses can be profitable and still have negative cash-flow, as well as visa versa. Remember, players get upfront payments rather than guaranteed contracts and this can lead to substantial cash outflows in a year, all of which does not go thru the P&L in that year. A couple of years ago Al Davis sold 10% of the Raiders for 150 million and when on a signing spree spending almost all of that on upfront payments. They certainly had a huge negative cahflow that year, despite most likely being profitable. All in all, 200/32= a little more than 6 million/club in not unfathomable.

#382 MadHatter

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 01:13 PM

Your posts towards me are always completely dickish, please don't bother if you can't act like an adult


I treat a child like a child should be treated.:eek:

#383 mav1234

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 03:19 PM

What are the limits and difference between a trade association and a union as far as the NFLPA is concerned, does anyone know?

#384 ARSEN

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 03:26 PM

I treat a child like a child should be treated.:eek:


cfo's r generally mean. When my CFO writes a letter to other employees, I usually add a couple words to make it sound nicer...

#385 Murph

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:18 PM

Interesting story about a moment that happened during negotiations

http://cowboysblog.d...erry-jones.html

#386 riddel

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:49 PM

Interesting post I read on the page above....

Just consider these gross facts:

Gross Fact 1: Even though their players endure the worst working conditions of any major pro athlete — shortest career spans and non-guaranteed contracts — the owners are asking them for a reported extra $325 million cut of the revenue. The players are wondering, why change anything?

Gross Fact 2: Even though their players' bodies are decimated by a 16-game schedule, the owners are asking them to increase to an 18-game schedule in three years. The players are wondering, are they really trying to kill us?

Gross Fact 3: Even though a study showed that 78% of NFL players are either bankrupt, divorced or unemployed within two years after the end of their career, the owners are still woefully inadequate in their contributions to the health of former players. The broken-down players are forced to shuffle and stagger into Super Bowl news conferences to plead for the owners to fulfill their moral obligation.


#387 Stumpy

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 05:06 PM

Interesting post I read on the page above....

Just consider these gross facts:

Gross Fact 1: Even though their players endure the worst working conditions of any major pro athlete — shortest career spans and non-guaranteed contracts — the owners are asking them for a reported extra $325 million cut of the revenue. The players are wondering, why change anything?

Gross Fact 2: Even though their players' bodies are decimated by a 16-game schedule, the owners are asking them to increase to an 18-game schedule in three years. The players are wondering, are they really trying to kill us?

Gross Fact 3: Even though a study showed that 78% of NFL players are either bankrupt, divorced or unemployed within two years after the end of their career, the owners are still woefully inadequate in their contributions to the health of former players. The broken-down players are forced to shuffle and stagger into Super Bowl news conferences to plead for the owners to fulfill their moral obligation.


I can understand the position the players are taking with the first two "Gross Facts." But when they get to the issue of players going bankrupt or unemployed after leaving the league, they completely lose me.

These are men who were provided with at a minimum of three years of college at major institutions. They are the ones who, for the most part, chose to pursue degrees in sports science, or communication. If the issue of bankruptcy is such a problem, then they should choose to go for a degree in Accounting or Financial Management. And as for unemployment, without even touching on the state of unemployment as whole in the US, if they were to get a degree in a real field, I would imagine that their unemployment rank would probably be somewhere well below the 9-12% range that the rest of America faces.

#388 Mr. Scot

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 05:08 PM

Interesting story about a moment that happened during negotiations

http://cowboysblog.d...erry-jones.html

Saw that posted on PFT too. Considered making a thread of it but didn't.

Jones being a prick is no great shock, but if it helped lead to where we are now? Ugh :(

#389 blackcatgrowl

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 05:46 PM

I can understand the position the players are taking with the first two "Gross Facts." But when they get to the issue of players going bankrupt or unemployed after leaving the league, they completely lose me.

These are men who were provided with at a minimum of three years of college at major institutions. They are the ones who, for the most part, chose to pursue degrees in sports science, or communication. If the issue of bankruptcy is such a problem, then they should choose to go for a degree in Accounting or Financial Management. And as for unemployment, without even touching on the state of unemployment as whole in the US, if they were to get a degree in a real field, I would imagine that their unemployment rank would probably be somewhere well below the 9-12% range that the rest of America faces.


It's always someone else's fault you know.

#390 JGib23

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 07:21 PM

Interesting post I read on the page above....

Just consider these gross facts:

Gross Fact 1: Even though their players endure the worst working conditions of any major pro athlete — shortest career spans and non-guaranteed contracts — the owners are asking them for a reported extra $325 million cut of the revenue. The players are wondering, why change anything?

Gross Fact 2: Even though their players' bodies are decimated by a 16-game schedule, the owners are asking them to increase to an 18-game schedule in three years. The players are wondering, are they really trying to kill us?

Gross Fact 3: Even though a study showed that 78% of NFL players are either bankrupt, divorced or unemployed within two years after the end of their career, the owners are still woefully inadequate in their contributions to the health of former players. The broken-down players are forced to shuffle and stagger into Super Bowl news conferences to plead for the owners to fulfill their moral obligation.


These "FACTS" are gross!

#1- Worst working conditions according to who? Is there any type of evidence to support this claim? If the working conditions are so bad, why didn't the NFLPA address this? The NFLPA by their own admission wanted to keep the now expired CBA in tact as it was. Either the working conditions are acceptable or they are not, the amount of revenue the NFL owners are asking for is irrelevant to this point- I don't think OSHA cares what the wages are when they investigate a workplace for unsafe work conditions...... Non-Guaranteed contracts, again collectively bargained and the NFLPA was happy to keep in tact, while contracts aren't guaranteed the signing bonuses/ performance bonuses are.. Sam Bradford rec'd 50M guaranteed as the first pick in the draft last year. Even 7th round picks last year received between 26-69k (some of which will never play a down in the NFL).. Gross Point Failure.

#2- The Players currently are contracted for 20 games (4 + 16), the proposal would have been for 20 games as well (2 + 18) The addition of the two games (and elimination of two preseason games) would not be immediate and would have required the NFLPA's blessing , and the players would receive concessions such as limitations to offseason workouts and training camp practices and a new formula allowing them to qualify for certain benefits with fewer seasons played than in the past.... Again, Gross Point Failure.

#3- The most comical of all... First of all, please provide a source to substantiate these numbers, I'm guessing there is no source beyond the hot air someone blew from their ass while making this number up.....but, even if the number was 100%, why does it matter (or should it matter) to the owners? What concern is it to the owners if the player cheats on his wife and it ends in divorce? More than half of all marriages end in divorce in America regardless of if they were in the NFL or not..(50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri)... Bankruptcy? Again why is this a concern for the owner? If the player blows his money, who is to blame? Unemployed? Still not a concern for the owners.....10% of all Americans are unemployed so, this is not an NFL only phenomenon... These former players are no different then any other people in the world- it's not free to live, you have to work to survive. Gross Point Failure #3