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Socialized Health Care

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Posted

About 50% of the federal budget right now goes to entitlements I think.

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Posted

U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png

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Posted

fuuuuuuuck i meant to say sufficient not significant.

oh no the man child will take my malapropism as a victory whatever will i do

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Posted

it doesn't matter whos fault it is. the society and government will bear the burden when they can't pay.

where did I say it should be?

it should definitely be encouraged, however, since that's ultimately cheaper and more efficient.

health care costs increase almost geometrically as a problem worsens. if you don't understand that then, well, there's not much I can do for you. the rise in healthcare costs in this country is outpacing inflation for christ's sake.

also if you're going to try to tell me you can put dollar value on a healthy life, then you're f*cking out of your mind. since you're using extreme examples, are you really going to feel good when you can afford to have your legs amputated after the pancreatic cancer you never had detected because you refused to spend the small amount of money on a check up ravishes your digestive, reproductive, digestive and neuromuscular systems?

of course there isn't. however, yearly check ups are going to be able to spot something earlier, and the earlier you can spot something the more likely you're going to be able to treat it successfully and at less cost to you and your family.

oh whelp can't do anything to make it better.

/smokes cigaretts

/drinks

/becomes huge burden on family when money he thinks was enough vanishes after first year of treatment

meaningless republican talking point? check

banal use of the word socialized? check

gross generalizations without supporting evidence? check

loose reference to a "system?" check

this assumes any disease is a rational actor which is ludicrous. if you believe you can completely insulate yourself from illness just by having responsibility you're out of your mind.

ahh yes, the greatest red herring of them all; choice. why do people think they're more able to decide what's best for them than a doctor, especially when we're dealing with knowledge that takes the smartest people our society has about a decade to learn?

Traditional healthcare with emphasis on preventative medicine: (government controlled or not)

this is patently untrue

like i already said, american pay more in healthcare related taxes than any country in the world.

this isn't true at all. doctors abroad get paid significantly less (though still significantly more than the rest of the population) abroad than they do in the states. this is due to numerous factors. however, if you think doctors have a problem with job security in this country, you couldn't be more wrong.

also payscale for doctors varies so wildly between specialization that it's really a useless metric for anything and difficult to apply, unless you want to compare what an oncologist in france makes compared to an oncologist in california.

just your opinion that you can't prove.

ludicrous statement not supported by easily available and overwhelming facts and observation

seriously do you know anything about this at all.

neither one of these is true at all.

for example, in france, spain, sweden, etc, you can see any doctor as many times a year that you need. access to specialty medicine is not a problem in cities. once you get out, it becomes a problem, not unlike here in the states where a small town in deer f*ck iowa doesn't have an acupuncturist.

also, the term "alternative medicine" is needlessly obtuse and pretty worthless. if you have a specific one you don't think is available list it and i'll gladly prove you wrong.

skyrocketing premiums you say? GOD FORBID!

also you're wrong...again

these aren't specifics at all. you're amazingly misinformed.

this isn't true at all.

they're in administration, and people like you insure that there will always be a need for intensive geriatric care services.

That's an awfully long post for a response that barely addresses anything in the direction of my main points.

You slam the generalizations I've made from what I've seen, but fail to provide any pertinent specifics of your own.

But then I'm not surprised - I've noticed you're very talented at going on long diatribes telling people how wrong they are, but with very little actual information or some semblance of a logical stream of consciousness at your back.

Congrats at looking smart to the casual skimmer, while those of us with half a peck of reading comprehension are laughing at you.

Can you do anything but sniff like a petulant child and tell us how wrong we are?

It's become very obvious to me that there is very much about this world that you don't know. But within the confines of your closed mind, I know the illusion persists otherwise.

How about we agree to disagree? I'll keep my HSA, and you can keep your crappy insurance. I get to pay for my health problems, and you get to pay for your health problems plus all of the health problems of the fat asthmatic blobs around you.

In 50 years we'll meet and see who is healthier and wealthier. :)

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Posted

You slam the generalizations I've made from what I've seen, but fail to provide any pertinent specifics of your own.

actually i posted this

you could have read it. i doubt you will since you're apparently comfortable forming an opinion from a place of low information, and ignoring it when it's presented to you.

Congrats at looking smart to the casual skimmer, while those of us with half a peck of reading comprehension are laughing at you.

guess you need more than half a peck to notice an obvious hyperlink.

How about we agree to disagree? I'll keep my HSA, and you can keep your crappy insurance. I get to pay for my health problems, and you get to pay for your health problems plus all of the health problems of the fat asthmatic blobs around you.

once again, you're paying more in healthcare taxes per person than any other country in the oecm. do you realize what this means?

you can read all about it here. this is an effort read though.

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Posted

BTW basing your opinions about universal health care on the VA is like basing your opinion of American cusine on MRE's.

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Posted

actually i posted this

you could have read it. i doubt you will since you're apparently comfortable forming an opinion from a place of low information, and ignoring it when it's presented to you.

guess you need more than half a peck to notice an obvious hyperlink.

once again, you're paying more in healthcare taxes per person than any other country in the oecm. do you realize what this means?

you can read all about it here. this is an effort read though.

Once again, I said pertinent. You still have yet to provide anything to support your argument, your links do not support your opposition; I can post a link and tell you you're wrong, too:

http://www.wikihow.com/Macrame You're wrong! Ha!

Don't worry. Your google searches sure are a place of high information, and places like, oh, books maybe, are places of low information. Only in Fiz world.

I'll let you have the last word on this, because I know that there are 2 things important to teh fiz: 1) Being right in his own mind, and 2) having the last word.

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Posted

Once again, I said pertinent. You still have yet to provide anything to support your argument, your links do not support your opposition; I can post a link and tell you you're wrong, too:

lol everything i said is covered in those things.

i mean what specifically do you think is not included?

I'll let you have the last word on this, because I know that there are 2 things important to teh fiz: 1) Being right in his own mind, and 2) having the last word.

oh yay pitifully transparent hand waving by pretending to be above the fray

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Posted

BTW basing your opinions about universal health care on the VA is like basing your opinion of American cusine on MRE's.

But basing it on Military medical care (which is different from the VA) does have some useful parallels.

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Posted

military medical care is incredible.

you've got something like a 95% chance of survival if you're wounded in the field and they get you to a chopper. they've got traumatic physical injury down pat.

now, ptsd on the other hand....cough cough

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Posted

it doesn't matter whos fault it is. the society and government will bear the burden when they can't pay.

where did I say it should be?

it should definitely be encouraged, however, since that's ultimately cheaper and more efficient.

health care costs increase almost geometrically as a problem worsens. if you don't understand that then, well, there's not much I can do for you. the rise in healthcare costs in this country is outpacing inflation for christ's sake.

not pertinent, actually supports my argument.

also if you're going to try to tell me you can put dollar value on a healthy life, then you're f*cking out of your mind. unsubstantiated given that the government and insurance companies already do this since you're using extreme examples, are you really going to feel good when you can afford to have your legs amputated after the pancreatic cancer you never had detected because you refused to spend the small amount of money on a check up ravishes your digestive, reproductive, digestive and neuromuscular systems?

of course there isn't. however, yearly check ups are going to be able to spot something earlier, and the earlier you can spot something the more likely you're going to be able to treat it successfully and at less cost to you and your family.

oh whelp can't do anything to make it better.

/smokes cigaretts

/drinks

/becomes huge burden on family when money he thinks was enough vanishes after first year of treatment unsubstantiated crap

meaningless republican talking point? check

banal use of the word socialized? check

gross generalizations without supporting evidence? check

loose reference to a "system?" check ah, the strawman.

this assumes any disease is a rational actor which is ludicrous. if you believe you can completely insulate yourself from illness just by having responsibility you're out of your mind. actually, this supports my argument about preventative care, too.

ahh yes, the greatest red herring of them all; choice. why do people think they're more able to decide what's best for them than a doctor, especially when we're dealing with knowledge that takes the smartest people our society has about a decade to learn? completely off subject

Traditional healthcare with emphasis on preventative medicine: (government controlled or not)

this is patently untrue This article does not address my point: that through the act of hiding medical costs by filtering them through employer benefits and through the use of co-pays rather than pay-for-service type billing, that costs of actual services rendered and drugs consumed are completely hidden from the consumer.

like i already said, american pay more in healthcare related taxes than any country in the world. Not related because of what I've said in the previous point; but somehow you have once again said something that supports my support of a hands-off, direct approach.

this isn't true at all. doctors abroad get paid significantly less (though still significantly more than the rest of the population) abroad than they do in the states. this is due to numerous factors. however, if you think doctors have a problem with job security in this country, you couldn't be more wrong. Unsubstantiated and more importantly, unrelated to my point that preventative care requires more hours from doctors and therefore more demand and job security for doctors in general.

also payscale for doctors varies so wildly between specialization that it's really a useless metric for anything and difficult to apply, unless you want to compare what an oncologist in france makes compared to an oncologist in california. Unrelated prattling once again!

just your opinion that you can't prove. Proof otherwise?

ludicrous statement not supported by easily available and overwhelming facts and observation Where is your overwhelming fact and observation to the contrary?

seriously do you know anything about this at all. Tell me, oh knower of everything!

neither one of these is true at all. Link?

for example, in france, spain, sweden, etc, you can see any doctor as many times a year that you need. access to specialty medicine is not a problem in cities. once you get out, it becomes a problem, not unlike here in the states where a small town in deer f*ck iowa doesn't have an acupuncturist. Link?

also, the term "alternative medicine" is needlessly obtuse and pretty worthless. if you have a specific one you don't think is available list it and i'll gladly prove you wrong. Did I say available? Or covered?

skyrocketing premiums you say? GOD FORBID! Consider this: If your main argument against an HSA is it has a similar problem as the alternative, is it really an argument?

also you're wrong...again link?

these aren't specifics at all. you're amazingly misinformed. link?

this isn't true at all. link?

they're in administration, and people like you insure that there will always be a need for intensive geriatric care services. link to my medical records?

Is this good? Or do you need more? What am I, your english teacher? :boxing_smiley:

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Posted

oh yay pitifully transparent hand waving

Interesting how you recognize the symptoms in others.

You'd better stop while you're ahead (or should I say not so behind?); you're proving me right with every post.

Keep going and I might get as conceited as you from being right so much.

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