Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Gus Malzahn blasts Nawrocki (PFW)'s account of Newton


  • Please log in to reply
129 replies to this topic

#91 blackcatgrowl

blackcatgrowl

    Trolls live here

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,944 posts

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:16 PM

Not in this draft, there isn't.

Some drafts don't have a true franchise QB in them. I'd say this is one of them.

Every draft has one guy who's the best choice of the bunch, but that doesn't make him a franchise quarterback.


Again more absolutes.

You can't possibly know if there is a Franchise QB in this draft. Newton could be the next Big Ben. Hell, there might be another Brady sitting in the lower rounds. You SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW.

I'm going to start calling you Zoltar. You obviously think you know the future.
Posted Image

#92 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • ALL-PRO
  • 42,227 posts
  • LocationSC

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:17 PM

So Mr. Scot, provide me your opinion on why Cam Newton is not a franchise QB. Suprise me sir.

I don't think he has the right skill set to become that franchise QB.

There are major questions about his ability to read defenses, his ability to run plays from under center, whether he can hit receivers in tight coverage consistently, and other things.

That doesn't say "franchise QB" to me.

And no, I don't get the franchise QB read on Gabbert, Mallett, Locker or any of the others either.

(guess I must hate them too)

#93 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • ALL-PRO
  • 42,227 posts
  • LocationSC

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:17 PM

Again more absolutes.

You can't possibly know if there is a Franchise QB in this draft. Newton could be the next Big Ben. Hell, there might be another Brady sitting in the lower rounds. You SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW.

And you know that there is?

#94 blackcatgrowl

blackcatgrowl

    Trolls live here

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,944 posts

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:21 PM

And you know that there is?


Jesus Christ dude...

Of course I don't. I'm not dealing in absolutes here. But here's what I do know...

Given our division, given our current stable of QBs, and given our fuging horrendous play at QB last year, we are obliged to go after one in the draft. Having the #1 pick, that means we have the chance to go after the best candidate. Since Luck stayed in school, that candidate is Cam Newton.

It is REALLY that simple. What is so god damned hard to understand about that?

Edited by blackcatgrowl, 01 April 2011 - 04:23 PM.


#95 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • ALL-PRO
  • 42,227 posts
  • LocationSC

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:29 PM

Jesus Christ dude...

Of course I don't. I'm not dealing in absolutes here. But here's what I do know...

Given our division, given our current stable of QBs, and given our fuging horrendous play at QB last year, we are obliged to go after one in the draft. Having the #1 pick, that means we have the chance to go after the best candidate. Since Luck stayed in school, that candidate is Cam Newton.

It is REALLY that simple. What is so god damned hard to understand about that?

Not really.

You're engaging in what I call "bait and switch thinking". Meaning that we went to the store, but the product we really wanted was gone. Now we have the choice to either wait until that product becomes available again, or just take the best thing in stock right now and just hope it's as good as the other would have been.

I don't think what's "in stock right now" is good enough, so I'd rather go to a different store. In this case, that'd be the Trade and Free Agency Store (which, unfortunately, is closed until at least April 6th and maybe longer).

#96 CarolinaPanthers8789

CarolinaPanthers8789

    Alexander SEMIN!!! FTW

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,382 posts
  • LocationNorth Carolina/Virginia

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:30 PM

I don't think he has the right skill set to become that franchise QB.

There are major questions about his ability to read defenses, his ability to run plays from under center, whether he can hit receivers in tight coverage consistently, and other things.

That doesn't say "franchise QB" to me.

And no, I don't get the franchise QB read on Gabbert, Mallett, Locker or any of the others either.

(guess I must hate them too)


His ability to read defenses is a question, that is very true. However, he is not as stupid or naive as many believe. His wonderlic score of 21 is slightly above average, he has a GPA of 3.2 which is above the 2.5 average of student athletes. He has shown the ability to read defense's just base on his ability to know when to stay in the pocket or take off as he averaged a very impressive 5.6 yards per carry stat.

However, he has started taking snaps under center in his workout and most are very impressed with how fast he has picked it up.

His accuracy is probably one of the most underrated tools he has. His accuracy in tight spaces is signifcantly above average as his completion percentage was in the 15th percentile of the NCAA if I am not mistaken. On top of that throwing only 7 interceptions has to tell the fans and scouts that he can make some tight throws and not all of them are dump down's based on his 10.2 average yards per pass stat.

#97 CarolinaPanthers8789

CarolinaPanthers8789

    Alexander SEMIN!!! FTW

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,382 posts
  • LocationNorth Carolina/Virginia

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:33 PM

I don't think he has the right skill set to become that franchise QB.

There are major questions about his ability to read defenses, his ability to run plays from under center, whether he can hit receivers in tight coverage consistently, and other things.

That doesn't say "franchise QB" to me.

And no, I don't get the franchise QB read on Gabbert, Mallett, Locker or any of the others either.

(guess I must hate them too)


I never said, you hate anyone but for being so defensive...well is there anything you want to own up to?

#98 blackcatgrowl

blackcatgrowl

    Trolls live here

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,944 posts

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:39 PM

Not really.

You're engaging in what I call "bait and switch thinking". Meaning that we went to the store, but the product we really wanted was gone. Now we have the choice to either wait until that product becomes available again, or just take the best thing in stock right now and just hope it's as good as the other would have been.

I don't think what's "in stock right now" is good enough, so I'd rather go to a different store. In this case, that'd be the Trade and Free Agency Store (which, unfortunately, is closed until at least April 6th and maybe longer).


Do strawmen rise up like zombies on this forum and possess people's accounts?

But Lets take your analogy a little further.

In this case, we're actually going to the drug store. We're going there because we've been poisoned by a venom called "2-14" that was delivered by a snake called "shitty QB play". This poison has made our franchise sick with "poor attendance", "an uninterested fan base" and "shame".

We need immediate aid in the form of an offense that can score points and win games. The best cure for that is to get anti-venom in the form of a "Franchise QB". The products on the shelf aren't what everyone recommended (Andrew Luck), but there are some really promising options on the shelf, and one in particular a lot of people say works (Newton).

If we wait, and don't get any anti-venom (QBs), we might get sicker (in terms of lower attendance and further shame, or even a worse record), or we might get a little better (8-8), but have lingering affects (like years of sub-playoff play).

#99 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • ALL-PRO
  • 42,227 posts
  • LocationSC

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:43 PM

I never said, you hate anyone but for being so defensive...well is there anything you want to own up to?

Not really, no.

Posted in the other thread that the notion that this is a big personal, emotional deal to me is pretty silly when you know what's been going on in this thing I like to call the real world. Of course, BCG thinks that's just a debating tactic :lol:

#100 blackcatgrowl

blackcatgrowl

    Trolls live here

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,944 posts

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:51 PM

Not really, no.

Posted in the other thread that the notion that this is a big personal, emotional deal to me is pretty silly when you know what's been going on in this thing I like to call the real world. Of course, BCG thinks that's just a debating tactic :lol:


See my response in that thread. Your activity in Cam threads speaks more towards anyone's emotion on this topic than anything I'm saying.

#101 CarolinaPanthers8789

CarolinaPanthers8789

    Alexander SEMIN!!! FTW

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,382 posts
  • LocationNorth Carolina/Virginia

Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:58 PM

Not really.

You're engaging in what I call "bait and switch thinking". Meaning that we went to the store, but the product we really wanted was gone. Now we have the choice to either wait until that product becomes available again, or just take the best thing in stock right now and just hope it's as good as the other would have been.

I don't think what's "in stock right now" is good enough, so I'd rather go to a different store. In this case, that'd be the Trade and Free Agency Store (which, unfortunately, is closed until at least April 6th and maybe longer).


You do realize that it is highly unlikely that we will be picking at #1 again next year, right? Not one team in this past decade has had consecutive #1 overall picks, and it has only happend four times since the first NFL draft in 1936, which means on average, about every 19 years a team will end up with back to back #1 overall picks. Also history is not on the side of the team who has had back to back #1 overall picks as only one of the three teams has ever won a Super Bowl. On top of that history also shows that the teams that have had back to back #1 picks usually get burned, and when I mean "get burned," I am saying their picks don't turn out as well as you would think.

Cleveland Browns
2000- DE, Courtey Brown (7 yrs. played, 0 SuperBowls, 0 ProBowls)
1999- QB, Tim Couch (6 yrs. played, 0 SuperBowls, 0 ProBowls)

Cincinnati Bengals
1995- RB, Ki-Jana Carter (8 yrs. played, 0 SuperBowls, 0 ProBowls)
1994- DT, Dan Wilkinson (13 yrs. played, 0 SuperBowls, 0 Pro Bowls)

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1987- QB, Vinny Testaverde (21 yrs. played, 0 SuperBowls, 2 ProBowls)
1986- RB, Bo Jackson (4 yrs. played, 0 SuperBowls, 1 ProBowl)

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1977- RB, Ricky Bell (6 yrs. played, 0 SuperBowls, 0 ProBowls)
1976- DE, Lee Roy Selmon (9 yrs played, 0 SuperBowls, 6 ProBowls)

Only Lee Roy Selmon had a great NFL career, Testaverde and Jackson had above average careers but Carter, Wilkinson, Couch, and Brown were all busts.

It would honestly be safer based on this information to pick Cam Newton now because, I personally believe at some point in the season Rivera would want to see what we have in Newton because one of two things is happening; Clausen is still not getting it done or a veteran we bring in is not getting it done either (still leaving us in contention for the #1 overall draft pick, mind you) which results into playing time for Cam where he either falters and we once again get the #1 overall draft pick or Cam rises to the occasion and we find out that we got one hell of a superstar on our hands.

Edited by CarolinaPanthers8789, 01 April 2011 - 05:03 PM.


#102 CarolinaPanthers8789

CarolinaPanthers8789

    Alexander SEMIN!!! FTW

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,382 posts
  • LocationNorth Carolina/Virginia

Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:00 PM

Not really, no.

Posted in the other thread that the notion that this is a big personal, emotional deal to me is pretty silly when you know what's been going on in this thing I like to call the real world. Of course, BCG thinks that's just a debating tactic :lol:


The hate I see is not really coming from the fans but more or less coming from the scouts, analysts, coaches, etc... but I guess it's kind of their right...

#103 top dawg

top dawg

    The Creative Cat

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,732 posts
  • LocationWITHIN MY MIND'S EYE

Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:02 PM

Trying to be objective here and stay neutral, but why would you trust one of his former coaches over a writer? One is obviously biased, and the other is not.

Not agreeing with one or the other but when I'm looking for an opinion on a player the LAST place I look for is an opinion by a former coach/teammate/whatever.


Everyone that you've ever known (former bosses, supervisors, colleagues, associates, neighbors, neighbors) would go out of their way to call you an angel if they really thought you were an asshole? Get real!

If Cam Newton is such a dastardly slouch, then someone, somewhere from his past would come out and publicly say so...unless they were just chicken poo. Oh, maybe they were paid off, That's it. Be for real! Writers are always right, especially the ones who pick and choose what information to put out there, according to their agenda. Please!

Who better knows me than the people who have come in contact with me firsthand? Not just family and friends, but customers and acquaintances, old teachers or whoever would be able to put something on the table that has more veracity than a third party who never met me.

I guess that this is just one of those philosophical differences.

#104 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • ALL-PRO
  • 42,227 posts
  • LocationSC

Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:06 PM

The hate I see is not really coming from the fans but more or less coming from the scouts, analysts, coaches, etc... but I guess it's kind of their right...

I don't know that it's hate as much as it's just a very cutthroat business.

These scouts probably meet some of the nicest kids you can imagine but those kids might happen to not be good enough for pro football.

If you let your emotions get into it, then it's probably not easy to tell a nice kid that he stinks.

There are millions of dollars and people's jobs on the lines with these decisions. They can't really afford to be nice if it means making the wrong pick.

It might look personal to us. To them, it's probably just part of what they do.

#105 Proudiddy

Proudiddy

    The Thread Killer (Since 2004)

  • Moderators
  • 16,183 posts

Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:40 PM

I've never seen Mr. Scot melt down over any subject, but apparently Cam is that subject that pushed him over the top.

I also never saw Mr. Scot attack any poster for any reason, until the possibility of Cam Newton being drafted #1 overall.

In the vein of trying to be a fair minded and objective poster, I often take into account others opinions that differ from mine on any given subject, in order to ensure that I AM in fact being fair and considering both sides of the argument (even when I have chosen a side).

But Mr. Scot's "argument" here is proving to be an emotionally driven rallying cry for everything Anti-Cam Newton, and it has lost its direction, if it ever had any. Bumping threads up, making 5 threads a day, posting in every positive spin on Cam to dispute it, then accusing the people that post about Cam in those threads to be dumb and emotionally involved to the point that they can't think logically. This is truly sad.

For everything that is pro-Cam he makes sure to enter the thread and trashes it. He has posted the most Anti-Cam threads out of anybody by a LARGE margin. He hasn't posted ANY thread showing positives about Cam from analysts - this from someone who isn't "emotionally invested" in the argument... But attacks others for being "emotionally invested." He has attacked people personally over their views on it. It's just really sad and it's getting old.

Let it go man, if he's our pick, he's our pick - if he's not, he's not. It's not that serious. I'm just tired of seeing this crap.

Edited by Proudiddy, 01 April 2011 - 05:46 PM.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com