76 replies to this topic

[hepcat]

Think about the earth, and the billions of people that live on it. Then think about our solar system - pass Pluto, head out into the Milky Way Galaxy and pass all the billions of stars and solar systems like ours. Then jump out into the greater universe and see the billions of galaxies with an uncountable amount of stars and planets...

Might look a little like this (just the Milky Way galaxy btw):
http://2.bp.blogspot... deep field.jpg

My question is - in all the vastness of the universe, with all its mystery, can any intelligent human being REALLY believe that we've got it all figured out? That on this tiny speck of nothing in the greater universe, we know exactly how it went down? Some carpenter that lived 2000 years ago is the reason for being and that's the end all? Or a dude who hid out in sand caves promises you 500 virgins after you die? What about all those failed religions from human history? Belief in the Egyptian pantheon of gods lasted for well over 4000 years!

I'm not making any claims about what I believe, besides the fact that I am agnostic. I definitely believe there is a greater source of power and awe out there that we haven't quite put our finger on yet. Religion is a primitive belief - something humans created to comfort ourselves because of our fear of the unknown. Especially in earlier times, humans could take solace in knowing their is a "god" watching over you because it gave you a larger sense of meaning. But if you really put your life into perspective, how little it matters in the grand scheme, and truly accept it...religion becomes obsolete.

[Mr. Scot]

If you believe in an all-powerful being, then none of the "vastness" takes away from that.

And disagree completely with the conclusion. If you believe in a being that's all powerful, what's to prevent him from being interested in individual lives?

[Cat]

If you believe in an all-powerful being, then none of the "vastness" takes away from that.

And disagree completely with the conclusion. If you believe in a being that's all powerful, what's to prevent him from being interested in individual lives?

Agreed, but if he is then he certainly seems like a fuging bastard.

[natty]

Agreed, but if he is then he certainly seems like a fuging bastard.

He makes up for that by helping athletes score points and actors win awards.

[Jase]

I've never seen a religion that seeks to explain all of the mysteries of the universe.

[Mr. Scot]

Agreed, but if he is then he certainly seems like a fuging bastard.

I don't buy the notion that bad things preclude the existence of God (free will, sin, etc).

One of the main points of Christianity is that God (specifically, Jesus) became human and suffered pretty much everything we suffer.

Why go through that if you don't care?

[hepcat]

There is a great deal of sadness in this world - why must we blame someone? God/Prayer whatever...it isn't going to do anything tangible. All we can do is offer our personal services to help. I'd rather put my hands on food and feed people than on a book about a story about a guy who did the same.

Human brains are so primitive...based on the time scale we could foreseeably exist. The dinosaurs existed for millions of years and humans have barely existed with cognizance (I'm considering this creating agriculture and civilization) for about 7000. Imagine what we'll be like a million years from now, if we manage to make it through our "drain the earth of its resources" phase.

[hepcat]

I don't buy the notion that bad things preclude the existence of God (free will, sin, etc).

One of the main points of Christianity is that God (specifically, Jesus) became human and suffered pretty much everything we suffer.

Why go through that if you don't care?

Jesus was a "man" that was also god...he could perform miracles and walk on water, etc. That facet of the story dilutes his "human experience" to me. Of course he had to prove he was god, to fit the story, but then it just adds a bunch of other "well you just gotta believe it" parts of the story. Especially when 95% of his life is missing from the book.

[mmmbeans]

we don't really even understand the capabilities of the human brain, it seems strange to say it's primitive when it's the most advanced thing that we've ever seen.

[Mr. Scot]

Jesus was a "man" that was also god...he could perform miracles and walk on water, etc. That facet of the story dilutes his "human experience" to me. Of course he had to prove he was god, to fit the story, but then it just adds a bunch of other "well you just gotta believe it" parts of the story. Especially when 95% of his life is missing from the book.

That's why there's the element of faith.

And for the purposes of that, honestly the miracles, crucifixion and resurrection would be the only parts you'd absolutely "need to know".

[SOJA]

Not to undermine another's faith because I believe you should be able to believe in whatever you want, but if 'God' does exist in the Christian sense is he really 'testing' your faith at the expense of thousands in Africa and Japan. Do you really consider yourself that important to where your faith is more important than other's lives?

Like I said I really think everyone should be able to believe in what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others, but sometimes I wonder how exactly Christians can explain the horrifying actions in the world other than the cop out answer of 'faith'

[Mr. Scot]

Not to undermine another's faith because I believe you should be able to believe in whatever you want, but if 'God' does exist in the Christian sense is he really 'testing' your faith at the expense of thousands in Africa and Japan. Do you really consider yourself that important to where your faith is more important than other's lives?

Like I said I really think everyone should be able to believe in what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others, but sometimes I wonder how exactly Christians can explain the horrifying actions in the world other than the cop out answer of 'faith'

Sin and free will, essentially.

There's no biblical promise that this world is going to be free from suffering, or even our individual lives.

Heck, I just spent the last month or so worried that I had MS, and there are still consequences of that with which I'll have to deal. I could get angry with God about that but it's not like I was promised I'd never have problems (and neither was anyone else).

[natty]

I guess it's religion day at the tinderbox.

[Stannis]

Sin and free will, essentially.

There's no biblical promise that this world is going to be free from suffering, or even our individual lives.

Heck, I just spent the last month or so worried that I had MS, and there are still consequences of that with which I'll have to deal. I could get angry with God about that but it's not like I was promised I'd never have problems (and neither was anyone else).

Sin and free will have nothing to do with natural disasters. If god created everything, then why did he create things in nature that are unavoidable and will certainly claim thousands of lives? If he is omnipotent, why allow that to happen? Sure, some say "sinners had it coming", but to me that is cynical and wrong. Nobody deserves to die in a hurricane or tsunami or earthquake, yet it happens. The only reasonable answer is nature is not dependent on any higher power. Suffering is one thing. Poverty, famine, etc. are things that a lot of people go through due to hard times in the economy or education, things that are controlled by man. But death due to nature makes no sense if you believe in a god.

[Cat]

I don't buy the notion that bad things preclude the existence of God (free will, sin, etc).

One of the main points of Christianity is that God (specifically, Jesus) became human and suffered pretty much everything we suffer.

Why go through that if you don't care?

The reality of the world, the evidence of suffering doesn't match the belief that their is an all powerful benevolent god.


Try thinking outside of your beliefs for just a second.