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Clausen stopped listening to coaches


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#136 King Taharqa

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 01:49 PM

Smith's accuracy 1998 One hit wonder season
58%

Cam Newton's accuracy 2010 season
66.1%

Yeah Smith was way more accurate.

You sir, are an idiot.


But Cam and Akili are both black. They are all the same. You seen one you seen em all.

#137 Cyberjag

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 07:20 PM

Look, i had read it in a chat back in february; that chat was long since overwritten. It's the only place I could find the quote, so I had to make due. I know Gantt said it, but hey believe what you want.


Obviously this would be a pretty big thing if it was true, and if it was a real issue. So, doesn't it stand to reason that if it was, there would be more than a comment thread on a blog somewhere that referenced it? It just seems to me that this is a lot to do about nothing.

#138 Sword

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 07:47 PM

Obviously this would be a pretty big thing if it was true, and if it was a real issue. So, doesn't it stand to reason that if it was, there would be more than a comment thread on a blog somewhere that referenced it? It just seems to me that this is a lot to do about nothing.


I guess someone will have to ask Gantt about it again..I'm not a twitter user but I'm sure some one can find out. I'm sure the observer wouldn't of made a full fledged article out of something like this considering the firestorm it would cause with Panthers brass.

#139 mav1234

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 08:15 PM

Smith's accuracy 1998 One hit wonder season
58%

Cam Newton's accuracy 2010 season
66.1%

Yeah Smith was way more accurate.

You sir, are an idiot.


I have no idea if Smith was more accurate because I never saw him play a game, but I can guarantee you that completion percentage alone doesn't tell you a damn thing about which one of them was more accurate.

#140 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:01 PM

I have no idea if Smith was more accurate because I never saw him play a game, but I can guarantee you that completion percentage alone doesn't tell you a damn thing about which one of them was more accurate.


Really, how else are you going to judge it?

#141 mav1234

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:05 PM

Really, how else are you going to judge it?


There is a discussion about this in another thread (the Jerry Rice one about Cam having accuracy questions), but things like ball placement and the kind of throws a player is making are very informative. You basically can't tell real accuracy without breaking down a play or at very least watching the guy play.

There's a certain value to completion percentage, but with the way offenses in college are designed now, it is really hard to compare completion percentage even between players on different teams today, let alone on different teams years apart.

#142 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:06 PM

Well, I'd post a video of each but the vids out there only portray each players best so that information would be aschued any way you look at it. Thats the only reason I am going off of pure stats.

#143 mav1234

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:09 PM

I understand, but sometimes stats just don't tell you the whole story. Having not seen Smith play in college I have no idea how accurate he was, that's all - but I had no idea one of his strengths was accuracy. That is something new to me, lol.

I have no idea if your assertion that Cam is more accurate is untrue or not, but I can tell you that completion percentage alone is just unsatisfactory at determining that in any meaningful way... =|

#144 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:11 PM

I think Smith was fortunate to be drafted where he was because his first year at Oregon indicated that he is a roller-coaster type of QB. Always up and down.

#145 mav1234

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:15 PM

yeah Smith's college career was before I watched much college football... rarely got any games from the west coast where I was.

#146 Marguide

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:17 PM

I have no idea if Smith was more accurate because I never saw him play a game, but I can guarantee you that completion percentage alone doesn't tell you a damn thing about which one of them was more accurate.


By itself, completion % may not tell the whole story. But I am much more interested in what happens on the field than I am in, for example, how someone throws at the combine.

A high completion % in a tough conference, along with a high YPA, and a good touchdown to interception ratio tells you a lot.

Not directed at you Mav, but I find it ironic that some commentators now speak of Gabbert as the more accurate passer based on a few drills. In January, people listed accuracy as one of Newton's strengths, but now list it as a question.

If teams really do value game performance over work-outs in shorts, these guys aren't even in the same league. So, what is it that causes people like Mayock to rate Newton as number 2 on their big board? It is character questions, nothing more. It is things like work ethic, and speed of learning, etc.. And that's fine. But call it for what it is.

People like MHS prefer to lump Newton in with every bust over the last 20 years. But there is no reason to polish up the argument by comparing his accuracy to Smith or anyone else. Just have some balls and say you don't like him as a person and save us all time.

#147 mav1234

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:30 PM

By itself, completion % may not tell the whole story. But I am much more interested in what happens on the field than I am in, for example, how someone throws at the combine.

A high completion % in a tough conference, along with a high YPA, and a good touchdown to interception ratio tells you a lot.

Not directed at you Mav, but I find it ironic that some commentators now speak of Gabbert as the more accurate passer based on a few drills. In January, people listed accuracy as one of Newton's strengths, but now list it as a question.

If teams really do value game performance over work-outs in shorts, these guys aren't even in the same league. So, what is it that causes people like Mayock to rate Newton as number 2 on their big board? It is character questions, nothing more. It is things like work ethic, and speed of learning, etc.. And that's fine. But call it for what it is.


Nowhere in this thread did I question Newton's accuracy at all. If you want to make a "Is Newton Accurate?" thread, go ahead. I will say this, though: A lot of the early "expert" predictions are not very refined and are not based on much film. Through Jan., a lot of work goes into researching players... both by watching film, but also by talking to scouts who have to get this stuff right for a living. If they raise a concern, it can quickly turn a positive to a negative because a lot of work still needs to be done in analyzing a prospect by the time Jan. hits.

But seriously. This thread was never about if Newton was inaccurate or not on his own.

I was telling someone that comparing the accuracy between two players by completion percentage is silly.

Edited by mav1234, 23 April 2011 - 09:32 PM.


#148 Marguide

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:38 PM

But seriously. This thread was never about if Newton was inaccurate or not on his own.

I was telling someone that comparing the accuracy between two players by completion percentage is silly.


I understand that. The thing I find amazing sometimes is how every year the draft experts get caught up in the evaluation process, and sometimes overvalue what happens at the combine/proday/Gruden camp, etc.

While not the be all and end all, things like QB rating, completion %, YPA, touchdown to interception ratio, and won-loss record are valuable pieces of information. I wouldn't use this information blindfolded to make a decision, but it is an important part nonetheless.

#149 Cyberjag

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:16 AM

I guess someone will have to ask Gantt about it again..I'm not a twitter user but I'm sure some one can find out. I'm sure the observer wouldn't of made a full fledged article out of something like this considering the firestorm it would cause with Panthers brass.


You really think every football publication out there would just ignore it? Really?

#150 Panths

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:37 AM

I remember Gantt tweeting about this issue, and then nothing else really came of it. It was an enigmatic comment, without any real context, that left one hanging , and some bloggers took it and ran with it. Can't blame the kid for trying to win when the coaches are just calling it in, if what he did worked we'd all be praising him for his decision. But it's really not worth speculating on a comment about Jimmy from a beat writer who still misses Delhomme


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