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Now that Iran has enough enriched


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#46 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:30 PM

There is a huge difference between a standup conflict between two military forces, and a guerilla insurgency such as Iraq. In a standup conflict between the US Army and the Iraqi army, the US won, and won handily. It wasn't even close. Guerilla warfare works when a side tries to hold a particular piece of land. Thats not what we are talking about here. We are talking Naval and Air Warfare, which is what the US excels at.

Actually taking and holding Iran would be a very difficult and bloody operation. Well holding it would be anyway. But we wouldn't need to hold Iran to prevent them from eliminating traffic thru the straits of Hormuz.

#47 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:41 PM

then here's your chance to prove me wrong. Show us all what you know.


See that's the whole issue with you Fiz... it's not that you come in the Tinderbox to argue your point, it's that you get personal with everything and pronounce in arrogance that you're right and that all the rest of us don't know as much as you about any of these issues. I'm not in here to prove you or anyone else wrong, and everything doesn't have to be an argument. All of your discussions seem intent on putting all the blame on the US for all the ills of the world. You throw around words like "facts" and then don't use them yourself such as when you said...

by any definition at all applied without any biases israel is a terrorist actor in the region. the people are trying right now to elect a party (likud) that likely committed war crimes.


Now I don't know about you, but "likely" doesn't tend to consitute a fact.


Then you said:

what he really was doing was quoting someone saying they would wipe out the israeli regime from the pages of history, which is quite f*cking different than "wipe israel off the map." Nagsheh, which means map, isn't even in what he said. you were lied to and it's your fault because you believed it.


which to me is pure semantics to argue that there is a difference between saying "wipe Israel off the map" and "wipe out Israel from the pages of history..." then accuse Meat of

playing semantics




This all started when I said:

:rofl: Do you really believe that Iran is pursuing nuclear technology only to "wean itself from a hyrdocarbon economy"?


I didn't mean that this may not be ONE of their reasons but rather that it wasn't the ONLY reason, but you said it like that was all they were doing and nothing else. Does Iran want to be a player in world politics and have their own nukes, absolutely if they can they would.

But the problem I have with you is more your attitude than anything. As Meat said, you're obviously an educated guy and believe strongly in what you're saying, and that's fine, but why have you got to be so arrogant about it?

#48 mmmbeans

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:52 PM

Iran wants to be respected, they are tired of being ignored. The best thing we can do is talk to them and convince them that the best way to become a global power is to lead by example. The Ayatollah is an intelligent man, he already understands this, he just wants to be treated with respect. They have absolutely nothing to gain by nuking anyone.

Ultimately, they want respect and regional power, neither of which can be gained by being the first example of the US policy of massive retaliation.

#49 Matt Foley

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:57 PM

Iran wants to be respected, they are tired of being ignored. The best thing we can do is talk to them and convince them that the best way to become a global power is to lead by example. The Ayatollah is an intelligent man, he already understands this, he just wants to be treated with respect. They have absolutely nothing to gain by nuking anyone.

Ultimately, they want respect and regional power, neither of which can be gained by being the first example of the US policy of massive retaliation.


I agree with everything you said except for one thing. Replace "Iran" with "the majority of Iran, which unfortunately does not have control".

#50 mmmbeans

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:59 PM

I agree with everything you said except for one thing. Replace "Iran" with "the majority of Iran, which unfortunately does not have control".


Neither does their president. He's a propaganda piece directed at the majority of the Muslim world. Keep that in mind.

#51 Matt Foley

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:05 PM

Neither does their president. He's a propaganda piece directed at the majority of the Muslim world. Keep that in mind.


I would trust Iran a lot more if they weren't in cahoots with Syria.

#52 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:08 PM

Iran wants to be respected, they are tired of being ignored. The best thing we can do is talk to them and convince them that the best way to become a global power is to lead by example. The Ayatollah is an intelligent man, he already understands this, he just wants to be treated with respect. They have absolutely nothing to gain by nuking anyone.

Ultimately, they want respect and regional power, neither of which can be gained by being the first example of the US policy of massive retaliation.


Iran gets plenty of attention, perhaps not the attention they want, but they certainly aren't ignored.

Agree that they have nothing to gain by nuking anyone (still doesn't mean we should let them have nukes), but as far as your observations of the Ayatollah, I am not so sure. I seriously doubt any of us truly know what the man is like. He may be intelligent, or he may be an idiot, we don't really know.

#53 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:09 PM

I would trust Iran a lot more if they weren't in cahoots with Syria.


I think you have that backwards.

#54 mmmbeans

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:09 PM

I would trust Iran a lot more if they weren't in cahoots with Syria.


Syria is a proxy, nothing more. They don't have a brain of their own.

#55 mmmbeans

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:10 PM

I think you have that backwards.


exactly.

#56 mmmbeans

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:18 PM

Iran gets plenty of attention, perhaps not the attention they want, but they certainly aren't ignored.

Agree that they have nothing to gain by nuking anyone (still doesn't mean we should let them have nukes), but as far as your observations of the Ayatollah, I am not so sure. I seriously doubt any of us truly know what the man is like. He may be intelligent, or he may be an idiot, we don't really know.


nukes are an inevitability, we could go to war with them and postpone it, but eventually they'll get them, even if they just buy them from someone else (i.e. pakistan.) They are going to continue to demand our attention regardless of what happens, the best we can do is to give them the right kind of attention and to help mold them in the proper direction ala nixon/kissenger and china. They're already one of the more progressive countries in the region, we already have the support of a great number of their populace and they are a very educated people. We cannot stop their progress at this point, they have the ability to affect their region in a very positive way, we just need to teach them to play the game properly and the world will give them incentive to do so.

#57 Fiz

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:26 PM

Thats not what we are talking about here. We are talking Naval and Air Warfare, which is what the US excels at.


But we wouldn't need to hold Iran to prevent them from eliminating traffic thru the straits of Hormuz.


and the point you keep making is one im not.

Iran doesn't need to eliminate traffic military througb the Strait. They need to increase the insurance costs of any company running a tanker through the Strait to unfeasible levels, and that would be really f*cking easy.

If a frog had wings it could fly. If the Panthers had stuck to the ground game vs. Arizona they'd be picking out Super Bowl rings. If is a pretty useful word if you like to argue, isn't it?

i'm qualifying it you f*cking child. do i think that iran would if provoked would cut off the world's oil supply? of course i do. do i think they would do it just because they could for no other reason at all? of f*cking course not.

do i think the united states would ever counter iran cutting off their oil by nuking it? NO OF COURSE YOU f*ckING CHILD

hurfa durfa im meat oh look iran wont give us oil better nuke them this won't have any repercussions at all and the oil will be free to flow immediately like men's warm piss into my stupid, blabbering mouth.

Now I don't know about you, but "likely" doesn't tend to consitute a fact.

the likely is in anticipation that someone like meat would not say what they've done are war crimes, which they have in fact committed.

The 1999 Likud charter emphasized the right of settlement in "Judea (and) Samaria" (more commonly known as the "West Bank") and Gaza,"[4] and as such, brings it into direct conflict with Palestinian claims on the same territory. Similarly, their claims of the Jordan river as the permanent eastern border to Israel and Jerusalem as "the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel," do the same.
The 'Peace & Security' chapter of the 1999 Likud Party platform “flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.” The chapter continued: “The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state.”[4]

Forced relocation has been declared by the ICC a war crime, something that Likud stated it would do IN ITS CHARTER!

Furthermore, its former leader, Ariel Sharon, covered up the slaughter of 3500 palestinians and even the f*cking israeli internal commission found him guilty.

We have found, as has been detailed in this report, that the Minister of Defense [Ariel Sharon] bears personal responsibility. In our opinion, it is fitting that the Minister of Defense draw the appropriate personal conclusions arising out of the defects revealed with regard to the manner in which he discharged the duties of his office - and if necessary, that the Prime Minister consider whether he should exercise his authority under Section 21-A(a) of the Basic Law: the Government, according to which "the Prime Minister may, after informing the Cabinet of his intention to do so, remove a minister from office."

sharon even prepared a defense before a rule change saved him from having to go to belgium to defend himself.

so yes war crimes were committed by likud and their leadership. there's no real maybe about it. i simply said likely to cover for someone like Meat or Venom saying it wasn't a war crime because the sun was in the wrong part of the sky or the palestinians are actually enemy combatants hurfa durfa.

which to me is pure semantics to argue that there is a difference between saying "wipe Israel off the map" and "wipe out Israel from the pages of history..." then accuse Meat of

ahahahaha what the f*ck?

how are these two things related at all.

meat said iran isn't the "most powerful," it's maybe the "most dangerous."

if you really think tha is comparable to israeli officials intentionally mistranslating a quote from ahmadinejad citing someone else saying "we are going to wipe the israeli regime from the pages of history" to him directly saying "we are going to wipe israel off the map" just tell me so i can put you on ignore and begin the long, painful process of forgetting someone as stupid and simple minded as you can exist.

But the problem I have with you is more your attitude than anything. As Meat said, you're obviously an educated guy and believe strongly in what you're saying, and that's fine, but why have you got to be so arrogant about it?

because idiots like meat vote and vote en masse. you'd be pissed to if you watched the country go to war over obviously manufactured causus belli while the intentionally uninformed masses clamored and neighed for more pictures of explosions and cheaper gas.

but basically the only chance a thrown ball has of sticking to a dull brick wall is if there are some spikes on it :)

Edited by Fiz, 20 February 2009 - 05:29 PM.


#58 Fiz

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:28 PM

They are going to continue to demand our attention regardless of what happens, the best we can do is to give them the right kind of attention and to help mold them in the proper direction ala nixon/kissenger and china.


1. it's kissinger

2. no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no this isn't what happened at all no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no why would you ever invoke kissinger no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

#59 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:35 PM

just tell me so i can put you on ignore and begin the long, painful process of forgetting someone as stupid and simple minded as you can exist.

because idiots like meat vote and vote en masse. you'd be pissed to if you watched the country go to war over obviously manufactured causus belli while the intentionally uninformed masses clamored and neighed for more pictures of explosions and cheaper gas.



Please do put me on ignore and ask me if I give a flying f*ck. This is exactly the thing I'm talking about... I guess calling people names on an internet message board gives you a hard on... so go ahead and enjoy it while I sit here and feel sorry for you.

#60 mmmbeans

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:37 PM

1. it's kissinger

2. no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no this isn't what happened at all no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no why would you ever invoke kissinger no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no


is that it?


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