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Panthers hire police to keep media out of workout


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#46 Dpantherman

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 12:08 PM

The Media cannot watch but does that go for the fans as well? I know many of us go to training camp every year and get autographs from the players, I was hoping to go for the first time this year and it seems like the only opportunity I will get is by going to these player organized workouts. If anyone knows a way me and my friends could watch them workout please let me know.

Its already over with.

#47 rayzor

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 12:18 PM

The Media cannot watch but does that go for the fans as well? I know many of us go to training camp every year and get autographs from the players, I was hoping to go for the first time this year and it seems like the only opportunity I will get is by going to these player organized workouts. If anyone knows a way me and my friends could watch them workout please let me know.

training camp will happen as usual. i wouldn't stress about it. as for these practices....i wouldn't count on being allowed to watch aside from maybe the 1/2 hour that the media will be there on the last day of it.

Its already over with.

they are going to be having 7 more of these practices. it's over for today, but there are more coming.

#48 Dpantherman

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 12:31 PM

O ok. I thought he was talking about today

#49 jtnc

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:16 PM

Why does the media keep saying the 'Panthers' hired a cop? This could bring up a red flag to the nfl.

#50 pnthrs

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:16 PM

circus is media created, though. players are just trying to get together to get their minds focused on what the panthers are going to be doing this year. they have playbooks and no doubt will be working on what they have. many (probably most) learn better in group settings and then they'll have a chance to see what it looks like on the field and try to implement it.

sure, it would be better with coaches...but these guys are professionals. they know what they are doing. they aren't just a bunch of guys off the street pretending they are something they are not. they have enough vets who know how these things go. very likely that they have brought in a couple coaches to help facilitate and run things in the training room and on the field.



Good point about the media being the cause for the circus. (and maybe some fervent fans.)

@ the players being professionals:

Yes and No. Some players we are lucky to have because they are so self motivated and can bring those around them up.

The examples are the 2 player run "camps" before this one. Jon Beason in Miami with about 10ish players at a facility for athletes. The other being Jordan Gross who brought his personal trainer from Iowa in to train with about a dozen guys in Davidson? (Slightly north of Charlotte somewhere.)

(I exclude Newton since that was 1 on 1.)

Those guys I/we can count on to be on their game and following the techniques and methods a NFL team would be providing for them (for the most part.) Those guys are beasts and are self motivated.

We unfortunately dont have 52 leaders and even if we did There are a million other moving parts for a real NFL practice that simply can not exist at their "team camp" @ Char Christian. That is just a fact.

For one thing there are not specific position coaches. That isnt going to help anyone who isnt a multi year vet get better at what it takes to be elite. (Gettis, Lafell, Armani just to name guys who need to have taken it up a notch who need a route running Ricky Prohel yelling at them.)

They are not running routines or practices that would and should be done if they were actually practicing for real. 1 trainer can simply not focus on a TE like he could an O linemen. That lack of specificity makes some people better off just physically training outside this camp with a vet. Is something not specific better than something specific? I dont think so but some will disagree.

The biggest area of concern I have is the physical training/rehabbing. The icing, the heating pads, the wrapping sore/pulled areas, the ice baths, the necessary injections, the monitoring of anything from athelets foot to a sore ligament that may tear if not rehabbed for a couple weeks . The NFL teams put guidelines and penalties in place for the players because they KNOW that many players would other-wise shrug off many effective methods if left to their own devices. I know for a fact that these guys are not going out of pockets for the intense therapies that it takes to maintain such physiques.

A perfect example is that Thomas Davis tweeked something small in his knee a week or 2 ago playing sand volley ball. He does not have access (through the NFL or personally) to someone who will be treating that with all the knowhow and elite medical prowess that a NFL trainer would. He could but isnt.


I dont mean to be doom and gloom by a long shot. I am happy we have players meeting in any sense of an organized fashion. I just want everyone to remember that the level of training and treatment that they will receive is so shoddy that we can not take anything they do as realistically preparing for a NFL season.

After hours of class room studies (not to mention rookie symposium needs) these guys should be in 4hour 2 a days with contracted weight clauses, expectations of physique, knowledge of playbook, increased stamina, speed, route running etc... The exact opposite has been the case for 80-90% of our team. Im not saying they are schlubs and fattys but the effort it takes an NFL player to go from insanely fit, to NFL field ready has been a March-Sept training routine for a reason.

The last thing I will say that I am sure some will agree with me and some will not:

There are a LOT of NFL players that would not still be NFL players if not for the strict and monitored regiment that the NFL imposes on the athletes. They are not responsible or motivated enough to take themselves from amazing to elite.

If we think their personal behavior is bad during a CBA and terrible in the lack of one, would it not be reasonable to assume their level of training is also as poor if not poorer for a good chunk of players?

Edited by pnthrs, 31 May 2011 - 01:20 PM.


#51 CatMan72

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:38 PM

Since they have the playbooks, it sounds like they may be planning on walking through some of the offense and defense and don't want anybody scouting them (which happens a lot more than anybody will admit). I could see only letting certain members of the press in with no cameras, but they may also want to be able to practice without a spotlight on them.

Boy, the media gets butt-hurt when you don't allow them in. They're acting like this is a congressional hearing they're being barred access from, not an informal players-only workout, LOL

#52 rayzor

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:42 PM

don't need 52 leaders. you only need a couple, and people who respond to those leaders. we have both of those.

there are enough vets who know what they are doing and know how to get people who can keep them in football shape. they know what precautions to make to help get everyone in football shape without putting themselves at too much risk. you brought up thomas davis tweaking his knee (hadn't hear that, but whatever). you said it happened playing volleyball...something that any player can do and is probably doing on any given day. all players are at risk there, but at least with these players, they will know enough (and will have at least been advised by someone who knows) to make sure that they have trainers there on hand who can handle injuries that might take place. we don't give these guys enough respect for what they do and the training they put in. they are professionals who know how to protect themselves. not a bunch of dumb jocks. they have done this long enough to figure it out. it may not be exactly to the level that they offer at the panthers facilities, but i'm sure that it's good enough for what they are doing and that they've covered their bases.

gross talked about what they did today...they just worked on basics on the field. then they went into the classroom and worked on learning the playbook. again, these guys have been doing this long enough (even the rookies) to know how to read a playbook and learn what's in it. being in a group setting, they can learn it better and make sure that they are on the same page as far as understanding goes. they will spend more time going over it in the classroom and i'm sure will go out on the field and try to implement what they've learned. it won't be defense facing offense, probably. both of them have playbooks to learn. it's all about learning. they know how to do it. they've done it for years.

will it be as good as if they have coaches around, but it will be much better for the group of them than if they were left to try and accomplish this all on their own.

again, there are enough guys who know what they are doing and enough leaders to make this incredibly beneficial to the team. there are players who have a lot to learn as far as being a professional. there are some who, because they are lower on the totem pole financially, just don't have the resources that the ones at the top have. they are a team, so they are pooling their resources to try and make the best of the situation for the team as a whole.

#53 rayzor

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:43 PM

Since they have the playbooks, it sounds like they may be planning on walking through some of the offense and defense and don't want anybody scouting them (which happens a lot more than anybody will admit). I could see only letting certain members of the press in with no cameras, but they may also want to be able to practice without a spotlight on them.

Boy, the media gets butt-hurt when you don't allow them in. They're acting like this is a congressional hearing they're being barred access from, not an informal players-only workout, LOL

agreed on all of it.

#54 plewis

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:45 PM

ha I was just reading this on ESPN and figured I'd come check it out here. I played on that field growing up. If the media wants to pay me I know how they can circumvent the off-duty police... but I dont work for free. ;)

#55 carolinarolls

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 02:07 PM

I see two things here:

1- the Panther players are willing to work and realize the importance of working
2- if they ran things there would never be any douchebag beat writers around

Proud day for me as a Panther Fan

#56 rayzor

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 02:12 PM

I see two things here:

1- the Panther players are willing to work and realize the importance of working
2- if they ran things there would never be any douchebag beat writers around

Proud day for me as a Panther Fan

:D

#57 teeray

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 02:56 PM

Good point about the media being the cause for the circus. (and maybe some fervent fans.)

@ the players being professionals:

Yes and No. Some players we are lucky to have because they are so self motivated and can bring those around them up.

The examples are the 2 player run "camps" before this one. Jon Beason in Miami with about 10ish players at a facility for athletes. The other being Jordan Gross who brought his personal trainer from Iowa in to train with about a dozen guys in Davidson? (Slightly north of Charlotte somewhere.)

(I exclude Newton since that was 1 on 1.)

Those guys I/we can count on to be on their game and following the techniques and methods a NFL team would be providing for them (for the most part.) Those guys are beasts and are self motivated.

We unfortunately dont have 52 leaders and even if we did There are a million other moving parts for a real NFL practice that simply can not exist at their "team camp" @ Char Christian. That is just a fact.

For one thing there are not specific position coaches. That isnt going to help anyone who isnt a multi year vet get better at what it takes to be elite. (Gettis, Lafell, Armani just to name guys who need to have taken it up a notch who need a route running Ricky Prohel yelling at them.)

They are not running routines or practices that would and should be done if they were actually practicing for real. 1 trainer can simply not focus on a TE like he could an O linemen. That lack of specificity makes some people better off just physically training outside this camp with a vet. Is something not specific better than something specific? I dont think so but some will disagree.

The biggest area of concern I have is the physical training/rehabbing. The icing, the heating pads, the wrapping sore/pulled areas, the ice baths, the necessary injections, the monitoring of anything from athelets foot to a sore ligament that may tear if not rehabbed for a couple weeks . The NFL teams put guidelines and penalties in place for the players because they KNOW that many players would other-wise shrug off many effective methods if left to their own devices. I know for a fact that these guys are not going out of pockets for the intense therapies that it takes to maintain such physiques.

A perfect example is that Thomas Davis tweeked something small in his knee a week or 2 ago playing sand volley ball. He does not have access (through the NFL or personally) to someone who will be treating that with all the knowhow and elite medical prowess that a NFL trainer would. He could but isnt.


I dont mean to be doom and gloom by a long shot. I am happy we have players meeting in any sense of an organized fashion. I just want everyone to remember that the level of training and treatment that they will receive is so shoddy that we can not take anything they do as realistically preparing for a NFL season.

After hours of class room studies (not to mention rookie symposium needs) these guys should be in 4hour 2 a days with contracted weight clauses, expectations of physique, knowledge of playbook, increased stamina, speed, route running etc... The exact opposite has been the case for 80-90% of our team. Im not saying they are schlubs and fattys but the effort it takes an NFL player to go from insanely fit, to NFL field ready has been a March-Sept training routine for a reason.

The last thing I will say that I am sure some will agree with me and some will not:

There are a LOT of NFL players that would not still be NFL players if not for the strict and monitored regiment that the NFL imposes on the athletes. They are not responsible or motivated enough to take themselves from amazing to elite.

If we think their personal behavior is bad during a CBA and terrible in the lack of one, would it not be reasonable to assume their level of training is also as poor if not poorer for a good chunk of players?


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#58 pnthrs

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 03:24 PM

don't need 52 leaders. you only need a couple, and people who respond to those leaders. we have both of those.

there are enough vets who know what they are doing and know how to get people who can keep them in football shape. they know what precautions to make to help get everyone in football shape without putting themselves at too much risk. you brought up thomas davis tweaking his knee (hadn't hear that, but whatever). you said it happened playing volleyball...something that any player can do and is probably doing on any given day. all players are at risk there, but at least with these players, they will know enough (and will have at least been advised by someone who knows) to make sure that they have trainers there on hand who can handle injuries that might take place. we don't give these guys enough respect for what they do and the training they put in. they are professionals who know how to protect themselves. not a bunch of dumb jocks. they have done this long enough to figure it out. it may not be exactly to the level that they offer at the panthers facilities, but i'm sure that it's good enough for what they are doing and that they've covered their bases.

gross talked about what they did today...they just worked on basics on the field. then they went into the classroom and worked on learning the playbook. again, these guys have been doing this long enough (even the rookies) to know how to read a playbook and learn what's in it. being in a group setting, they can learn it better and make sure that they are on the same page as far as understanding goes. they will spend more time going over it in the classroom and i'm sure will go out on the field and try to implement what they've learned. it won't be defense facing offense, probably. both of them have playbooks to learn. it's all about learning. they know how to do it. they've done it for years.

will it be as good as if they have coaches around, but it will be much better for the group of them than if they were left to try and accomplish this all on their own.

again, there are enough guys who know what they are doing and enough leaders to make this incredibly beneficial to the team. there are players who have a lot to learn as far as being a professional. there are some who, because they are lower on the totem pole financially, just don't have the resources that the ones at the top have. they are a team, so they are pooling their resources to try and make the best of the situation for the team as a whole.


I get what your saying and hope you are right. The problem with all this is it is pure opinion based optimism.

I just saw the info about today's practice and really like the classroom work. The more of that with some minor drills the better.

Mark my words. If there is a 16 game season this year we will see the highest rate of injury ever.

PM me if you are interested about some of the info I have regarding my posts. TD tweek, some player offseason training (or lack there of.)

#59 4Corners

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 03:33 PM

ha I was just reading this on ESPN and figured I'd come check it out here. I played on that field growing up. If the media wants to pay me I know how they can circumvent the off-duty police... but I dont work for free. ;)


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#60 rayzor

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 03:44 PM

I get what your saying and hope you are right. The problem with all this is it is pure opinion based optimism.

I just saw the info about today's practice and really like the classroom work. The more of that with some minor drills the better.

Mark my words. If there is a 16 game season this year we will see the highest rate of injury ever.

PM me if you are interested about some of the info I have regarding my posts. TD tweek, some player offseason training (or lack there of.)

no less opinion based and optimistic than your thoughts are opinion based and pessimistic. it only takes a couple leaders to set the tone and the example. i offer no more unfounded speculation than you have and don't suggest that yours is more reality based. i trust the knowledge and leadership of a few guys on there to handle things well, making sure that they will have what is needed to make certain that it will be beneficial to the whole group. no real reason to believe otherwise unless you are looking for a reason to worry.

i do agree that we might see more injuries, but the conditioning program that these players are undertaking will help cut that down. it's not a perfect substitution for what they get at facilities, but its much better than all of them doing their own thing or nothing at all.


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