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Anti-Immigration Laws Create Labor Crisis for American Farmers


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#1 Catalyst

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 03:03 AM

http://news.yahoo.co...merican-farmers

Pretty interesting article. Basically they're saying that in the states that have copied the Arizona illegal immigration law farmers are reporting huge labor shortages as illegals are moving to other states to get away from the new law(s).

One farmer said he only found half of the 300 workers he needs to pick his blueberrys and that was even after increasing the pay 20%. They say Americans aren't interested in the jobs due to the long hours, harder work, and comparatively less pay offered when compared with other jobs.

I think this goes to show that these anti-illegal immigration laws aren't quite as cut & dry as many like to claim. There are a lot of small businesses & farms that have been counting on a steady stream of illegals to get by over the years - one of the reasons so many illegal workers come here to begin with as they know they can find work.

Many Americans have long complained that they're taking our jobs, but if this situation is any indication then we're seeing definite signs that the jobs they're taking don't appeal to the average American anymore anyway, even in these desperate times. I suppose you can argue that it's a sign of the times when anyone is having a tough time finding workers in the aftermath of a huge recession that aren't illegal immigrants.

I think it just goes to show what I've been arguing for years - that this immigration 'crisis' is partly of our own doing and creation and that there are plenty of Americans who will gladly - and have - looked the other way for decades due to the cheap and easy to find labor that's available as a result.

#2 g5jamz

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:58 AM

We've always looked for indentured servitude in agriculture. That's why farmers had 8-9 kids. That's why farmers took on kids who's parents worked and needed a place for their kids to hang out. I did it. And in retrospect...I loved it. Gave me tons of just basic knowledge (plumbing, electrical, etc) that I've used throughout my life.

I don't know the answer, but I do know that adults should not be slaves and our government subsidizing their existence because we're afraid to speak up.

#3 Catalyst

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:32 AM

I honestly don't think anything can be done as far as securing the borders go until and unless Mexico makes strides with its economy and standard of living.

I've heard many folks say the solution is to build a massive wall across the entire border. Now, the cost associated with such a massive project - not to mention the social and moral questions - aside, I simply don't think it'd work. If these people are truly set on coming to America they're not going to let a wall stop them.

They'll get in boats and go around it via the ocean, or use planes to fly above it. Or build huge tunnels for miles underneath it. They'd find a way to keep coming and if something as drastic as a f**king wall won't work, then what the hell else will?

And if you add in the fact that - as this article states - many American farms and businesses rely on them to fill jobs we don't want then it comes to a point where we may be well past a point of no return and may actually need them to keep segments of the agriculture industry going.

There's a reason this issue hasn't been solved yet despite all the calls to do so.

#4 cookinwithgas

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:52 AM

It was only a few short months ago you conservatives were telling us how these anti-illegal actions would create more jobs for citizens, and I told you there was no way it was going to happen because of the nature of the work.

But as usual, it's more important to prove an intangible point that to make things work better for everyone. When these costs and shortages add to food prices, I'm sure it will be Obamas fault too.

#5 g5jamz

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:58 AM

Obama's answer is comprehensive immigration reform...aka...amnesty.

I don't think that's the answer.

Obama's administration could have boosted E-verify, but chose not to. They want a new voting bloc. If we do that...they'll just unionize and costs will go up either way. I prefer to do it defending the current laws on the books.

#6 cookinwithgas

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:04 AM

the current laws on the books would kick them all out if actually enforced, at a cost of millions and millions of tax dollars, and we'd have the same problem.

Amnesty would probably indeed start the process of this class of person getting more pay and moving into a better life - which is what we call "The American Dream". You know, what our forefathers worked for yet we somehow feel these people don't deserve. The US attempting to maintain a permanent underclass is probably the worst transgression of the Founders ideals I can think of.

#7 pantherfan49

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:20 AM

The US attempting to maintain a permanent underclass is probably the worst transgression of the Founders ideals I can think of.


Many of the founders owned slaves.

#8 pantherfan49

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:22 AM

It was only a few short months ago you conservatives were telling us how these anti-illegal actions would create more jobs for citizens, and I told you there was no way it was going to happen because of the nature of the work.


Well it did create more jobs for citizens, but our citizens have gotten too damn sorry to do the job.

#9 cookinwithgas

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:43 AM

You keep dealing with fantasy and I'll keep dealing with reality.

#10 Floppin

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:53 AM

Well it did create more jobs for citizens, but our citizens have gotten too damn sorry to do the job.


That's BS, especially in the farming industry. Most of these illegals were little more than modern day slave laborm receiving little to no wage compensation. If farmers had to suddenly pay real wages their overhead costs would raise remarkably.

#11 Floppin

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:55 AM

For instance.

Farm workers who pick tomatoes for the fast-food industry are among this country’s most exploited workers. Those who work in the tomato fields throughout Florida earn subpoverty wages and have no health care coverage or freedom to form unions. Growers have paid the farm workers in that state roughly the same wages for the past 30 years.

In April, the Coalition of Immokalee Workers (CIW) won a groundbreaking agreement with McDonald’s, the world’s largest restaurant chain. The fast-food giant agreed to pay a penny more per pound to workers harvesting tomatoes, which means the workers will get 72 cents to 77 cents for every 32-pound bucket of tomatoes they pick, up from 40 cents to 45 cents.


http://blog.aflcio.o...t-farm-workers/

There's tons of information about the exploitation through lies and forgery of documents by farmers on a MASSIVE scale against illegals.

#12 pantherfan49

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:21 AM

That's BS, especially in the farming industry. Most of these illegals were little more than modern day slave laborm receiving little to no wage compensation. If farmers had to suddenly pay real wages their overhead costs would raise remarkably.


I don't agree with that. If illegals were receiving no wage compensation, then they would go elsewhere.

I grew up on a farm and know plenty of practicing farmers. Those farmers pay their employees actually fairly well. You are right that they don't usually include health insurance, instead the farmers will usually pay for any individual employee's medical bills when a visit to the doctor is needed. When a visit to the ER is needed, I think the farmers largely pass that cost onto Medicaid. For the practicing farmers that I do know, I don't know whether their employees have legal or illegal immigration status.

#13 Floppin

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:28 AM

I don't agree with that. If illegals were receiving no wage compensation, then they would go elsewhere.

I grew up on a farm and know plenty of practicing farmers. Those farmers pay their employees actually fairly well. You are right that they don't usually include health insurance, instead the farmers will usually pay for any individual employee's medical bills when a visit to the doctor is needed. When a visit to the ER is needed, I think the farmers largely pass that cost onto Medicaid. For the practicing farmers that I do know, I don't know whether their employees have legal or illegal immigration status.


Just because you know some private farmers who do things on the up and up, doesn't make the fact that it happens false. I grew up in a farming area too. The worst exploitations happen on huge Midwest/California/Southeast Corporate owned farms.

#14 Floppin

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:38 AM

The "they could just go elsewhere" argument also doesn't hold water. It operates under the assumption that these people just showed up at the farm for a job. In the majority of cases for this exploitation that isn't the case.

Human trafficking has become a major issue in the Midwest heartland of America, causing some campaigners to dub it a modern form of slavery.

Figures from the State Department reveal that 17,500 people are trafficked into the US every year against their will or under false pretences, mainly to be used for sex or forced labour. Experts believe that, when cases of internal trafficking are added, the total number of victims could be up to five times larger. And increasing numbers of trafficked individuals are being transported thousands of miles from America's coasts and into heartland states such as Ohio and Michigan.

"It is not only a crime. It is an abomination," said Professor Mark Ensalaco, a political scientist at the University of Dayton, Ohio, who organised a recent conference on the issue. In Ohio a human trafficking commission has just been set up to study the problem, while in the northern Ohio city of Toledo a special FBI task force is tackling the issue. For many local law enforcement officials, it is a bewildering new world


http://www.guardian....ostitution-ohio

#15 pantherfan49

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:40 AM

Just because you know some private farmers who do things on the up and up, doesn't make the fact that it happens false. I grew up in a farming area too. The worst exploitations happen on huge Midwest/California/Southeast Corporate owned farms.


Maybe so. Still doesn't take away from the credibility of my statement, which is that enforcing immigration laws against "illegal" immigrants would increase jobs for citizens. I really don't know how you can argue with that. If you suddenly displace an "illegal" from a job and require that the farmer replace that illegal with a US citizen, it creates more jobs for US citizens. My experience has been that most US citizens are too damn sorry to do those jobs though. I certainly wouldn't given an alternative means of earning a living.


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