Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Rosario is a more efficient pass blocker than King...


  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#46 jtm

jtm

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 08:28 AM

Those comments were two [B]different[B] posts. One post we were discussing Rosario, and I mentioned that I thought the coaching staff is responsible for his under development. The other post was about Clausen and how I feel he plays scared. I am not sure any coaching staff could, or can, fix that. Two different posts about two different situations.

I believe Rosario has talent and has been under utilized. For that I blame the coaching staff. They very well could have made him an option, but they never utilized his talent. We do not know if Dante is average or not, because he has never been given a chance.

Whereas with Clausen, I do not believe there is anything, or anyone, who can fix him. Are we supposed to dumby down the play book to make him comfortable? I am sure opposing teams would love that. He could not move the offense, nor did he throw a TD. Sure most rookie QBs look bad, but Clausen set a new standard. I am not sure any coaching staff could have made him look better. I do not blame the coaches for how Clausen looked, I blame the coaching staff for drafting Clausen to begin with.

Rosario has shown glimpses of what he can be. Clausen has shown nothing. Rosario has shown he deserves a chance. Clausen has shown he deserves to be #3 or worse.

I hope that clarifies things for you. And GOOO PANTHERS!!!!!!!!


I see where you are coming from, but I just don't see it with Rosario. If I had a dime for every time Jake Delhomme or John Fox threw their hands up in the air because Rosario ran the wrong route or dropped a pass, I could get free coffee for a year.

I think Rosario has incredible athleticism, but he is a constant tease as another poster put it. I also disagree that he has been underutilized, he has been benched because Jeff King is a better tight end. Jeff King wouldn't be a starter on any other team in the NFL and Rosario can't beat him out. When you run wrong routes and drop passes you don't get many opportunities. This isn't because they haven't tried to use him - instead they have and he squandered those opportunities.

It is sad to say but Rosario is a back-up on a team that doesn't have very good tight ends. At this point with Shockey, he is probably 3rd on the depth chart. It wouldn't surprise me to see him launched after the CBA.

#47 rmoneyg35

rmoneyg35

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,340 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 09:22 AM

Maybe, but it's always seemed odd to me that Rosario has been our 2nd and 3rd string fullback at times but he's not a better run blocker than King?

Isn't athleticism a big part of run blocking?

I have a feeling that Rosario was in Fox's doghouse and as we've seen with other players once you got in Fox's doghouse it was almost impossible to work your way out. Couple that with the fact that King is a very smart player and a good leader and King's starting role may have had as much or more to do with his intangibles than with him being the best TE on the roster.

Rosario is a vet and has a clean slate now, I'm hoping he takes advantage of the opportunity, I think he has a MUCH higher ceiling than King or Barnidge.




I was thinking this as well. You brought up a very good point, I think we will have a lot of players breakout this year with a new coach. Fox has always left talent on the bench over experience. Look at Deangelo Williams and James Anderson both are talented players but they spent years either being buried in the depth chart or being a sub.


Rosario is one player who I thought was going to have a big year in 2008 when he caught the game winning TD with 2 seconds left against San Diego but he never broke out. I blame Fox because he never used Rosario properly, I would like to see us use him like Chris Cooley is used for the Redskins.

Now with a offensive coordinator that was once a great TE coach, Rosario will have a better opportunity of having a career year. I could also see Barnidge getting some much needed playing time and hopefully will continue to develop into a starting tight end. With the signing of Shockey our team is deep at TE. I don't know if we will re-sign King but if we do we will have 4 tight ends that are different from one another. The only problem is that Rosario might not have much of a breakout year statistically because Shockey will more than likely be the #1 and if King is resigned,Rosario could end up being the #3 TE.

#48 SorthNarolina

SorthNarolina

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,407 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 09:28 AM

i think the op is really more reflective of the offense and not the individual players. I don't Rosario can do King's job as well as King. It doesn't make King a better player or even a more valuable player, but I can't see how he's a better blocker.

#49 Snake

Snake

    swagaholic

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,423 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 09:28 AM

I don't know....don't sleep on Gary in the recieving department. I think he has just as much potential as Rosario Dawson in that department. A lot of unknowns about our TEs since Fox simply refers someone with Kings skills set being involved.


Im not sure what to think of him. He is def not a blocker and wiffs on too many ST blocks for sure. Where he is a pass catcher he is very stiff running as well.

#50 Snake

Snake

    swagaholic

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,423 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 09:31 AM

Hey look - it's D.J. Hackett!


LOL the guy who was supposed to be this big sleeper for the seahawks and turned out to just be asleep on most plays.

#51 jtm

jtm

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 10:06 AM

I was thinking this as well. You brought up a very good point, I think we will have a lot of players breakout this year with a new coach. Fox has always left talent on the bench over experience. Look at Deangelo Williams and James Anderson both are talented players but they spent years either being buried in the depth chart or being a sub.


Do people really think that Fox held grudges and didn't put the team on the field that gave us the best chance to win? DW was buried in the depth chart at that point because he was following one of the best players in Panthers history and hadn't (at that time) proven that he was anymore than a change of pace back.

Try and think back (honestly) how you felt when the Panthers were going into the year without Stephen Davis (prior to drafting Stewart) with DW as the starter. Many people like myself were happily proven wrong :)

Edited by jtm, 18 June 2011 - 10:11 AM.


#52 I am Hubby

I am Hubby

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 604 posts
  • LocationEarth

Posted 18 June 2011 - 10:56 AM

In a perfect world for Foxy, rookies would never see the field. The one thing that Foxy hated above all else was mistakes. Young players make mistakes, which is why Foxy loved his vets.

When you play Foxy style football, conservative and close to the vest, mistakes can kill you. So Foxy would only play players he thought he could count on. Players who would be in the right place at the right time. So it was frustrating when players we thought were more talented, got very little playing time.

Just a fact of life with Foxy. Did not make him a bad coach, just a frustrating coach.

At least that is how I see this.

#53 jtm

jtm

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 11:23 AM

In a perfect world for Foxy, rookies would never see the field. The one thing that Foxy hated above all else was mistakes. Young players make mistakes, which is why Foxy loved his vets.

When you play Foxy style football, conservative and close to the vest, mistakes can kill you. So Foxy would only play players he thought he could count on. Players who would be in the right place at the right time. So it was frustrating when players we thought were more talented, got very little playing time.

Just a fact of life with Foxy. Did not make him a bad coach, just a frustrating coach.

At least that is how I see this.


I agree that Foxy was a very frustrating coach, but I guess we can agree to disagree on Rosario. You feel he wasn't given chances and I feel he was and didn't capitalize.

I think a lot of people are expecting us to start airing the ball out this year. Our offense will be greatly improved (in my opinion) because of Chud and not having a bunch of lame duck coaches. But, we will still be a run first possession type of offense. I just think when we throw the ball we will not be committed to the same types of formations and plays. I expect Chud to run a lot of different WR sets so we are not too predictable when we throw. Tough to trick defenses when you run the same 3 WR sets every time. A lot of people don't realize it, but the Falcons have a run first offense.

With Cam, DW, and Stewy in the backfield, LBs are going to be forced to make some difficult match-up decisions. There will be a lot of D coordinators that have sleepless nights in the years to come. :P

#54 CatMan72

CatMan72

    KEEP POUNDING

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,910 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 12:30 PM

If King is gone, I don't know how I can handle watching PANTHER games without seeing the goofy white dude with those goofy ass long sleeve white shirts. Oh King, thanks for all you've done, but it's time for a real threat at TE to emerge.


Yeah, I've wonder what is up with the sleeves... even on hot sunny days the guy is wearing long white sleeves?

Maybe he figures he can take that long sleeve shirt off and tie it around his waste if he craps himself again?

#55 PhillyB

PhillyB

    hug it chug it football

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,745 posts
  • LocationGreensboro

Posted 18 June 2011 - 12:48 PM

rosario has some mental problems to work out but he's one of the most clutch players on the team. this is an indisputable fact.

#56 CarolinaPanthers8789

CarolinaPanthers8789

    Alexander SEMIN!!! FTW

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,448 posts
  • LocationNorth Carolina/Virginia

Posted 18 June 2011 - 01:00 PM

Only Jeremy Shockey and Gary Barnidge are under contract so there is no reason to cut one of them (obviously referring to Barnidge). However, the team usually carries three tight ends which leaves room for Rosario or King.

First, I would look at pass and run blocking protection because the Panthers have always liked tight ends that can open holes on the outside for Williams and Stewart or can stand on the line and pick up a blitzing linebacker. Based on the information provided Rosario definitely has the edge on King is this area.

Secondly, one would want to look at the tight ends ability to become a pass catching tight end. King did have more touchdowns than Rosario last year but that is mainly because King was more of a red zone threat due to his stocky build and large frame. However, Rosario had more yards and more receptions which indicates that he made himself a threat almost everywhere on the field except for the red zone. If Rosario can make himself a threat in the red zone he should be a total package tight end. Once again I would give the edge to Rosario.

Finally, you should look at athleticism, ability, and NFL experience. With out a doubt Rosario has more athleticism and ability than King, to be honest Rosario has just as much athleticism as Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates (don't believe me, go watch this list of games: 2007 vs. Seattle, 2008 @ San Diego, 2009 @ Dallas, 2009 @ New York Jets). They both have NFL experience, yet Rosario probably has more left in the tank than King.

With that said here is my tight end depth chart for this season...

1. Jeremy Shockey
2. Dante Rosario
3. Gary Barnidge

#57 mercules20

mercules20

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 157 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 01:15 PM

Do people really think that Fox held grudges and didn't put the team on the field that gave us the best chance to win? DW was buried in the depth chart at that point because he was following one of the best players in Panthers history and hadn't (at that time) proven that he was anymore than a change of pace back.

Try and think back (honestly) how you felt when the Panthers were going into the year without Stephen Davis (prior to drafting Stewart) with DW as the starter. Many people like myself were happily proven wrong :)


Okay, lets think about 4 or 5 years ago when Deshaun Foster was our lead back, who was behind him?

#58 jtm

jtm

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 03:44 PM

Okay, lets think about 4 or 5 years ago when Deshaun Foster was our lead back, who was behind him?


Please don't make me do that, I have removed Defumble Foster from my memory.

#59 DaveThePanther2008

DaveThePanther2008

    Superior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,062 posts
  • LocationMelfa

Posted 19 June 2011 - 09:24 AM

I see where you are coming from, but I just don't see it with Rosario. If I had a dime for every time Jake Delhomme or John Fox threw their hands up in the air because Rosario ran the wrong route or dropped a pass, I could get free coffee for a year.

I think Rosario has incredible athleticism, but he is a constant tease as another poster put it. I also disagree that he has been underutilized, he has been benched because Jeff King is a better tight end. Jeff King wouldn't be a starter on any other team in the NFL and Rosario can't beat him out. When you run wrong routes and drop passes you don't get many opportunities. This isn't because they haven't tried to use him - instead they have and he squandered those opportunities.

It is sad to say but Rosario is a back-up on a team that doesn't have very good tight ends. At this point with Shockey, he is probably 3rd on the depth chart. It wouldn't surprise me to see him launched after the CBA.


I was tracking with what you were saying about Rosario. But the King remark is absurd. While King is not Wesley Walls or Kellen Winslow Sr. he is as solid TE. Blocks extremely well, has good hands and is a perfect TE for a running team. If we do not resign him, he will be picked up and quite quickly and start.

Too many of you expect every player to be the prototype player at every position. If every team had the perfect player then the NFL would be boring.

#60 jtm

jtm

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts

Posted 19 June 2011 - 10:26 AM

I was tracking with what you were saying about Rosario. But the King remark is absurd. While King is not Wesley Walls or Kellen Winslow Sr. he is as solid TE. Blocks extremely well, has good hands and is a perfect TE for a running team. If we do not resign him, he will be picked up and quite quickly and start.

Too many of you expect every player to be the prototype player at every position. If every team had the perfect player then the NFL would be boring.


I have nothing against Jeff King, he is a great role player. But he is only a role player and there is nothing wrong with that. Teams need role players in order to win and he plays this part well. This is why in my opinion Rosario or others have not been able to beat him out. He blocks like he should, catches when thrown to, and runs decent routes. However, the Panthers have brought in 3 different TEs since acquiring King in 2006 and that says a lot.

Until the past couple of years the TE position has basically been another blocker with the exception of a few players in the NFL that were gifted enough to do both. Now with the athletes that are coming out of college, players like King are becoming a thing of the past. Most teams are looking for a duel threat and King isn't really that guy.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com - IP Content Design by Joshua Tree / TitansReport.