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What liberals really think


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#16 Jase

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:26 PM

Fascism is based on the concept of social darwinism, the furthest thing from communism and socialism. Dictatorships are dictatorships and I think the general consensus is that neither stalin nor mao led truly communistic regimes.


Social Darwinism is a component of all changing government systems. (It was even evident in our last election here in good old america) People seem to associate social darwinism automatically with eugenics, which I believe to be false. (another arab-muslim type confusion)

Generally fascists dictators use another method to gain power, (hitler, quasi-socialism; mao and stalin, communism) and then use fascism to keep power. All dictators essentially have to be fascist.

Edited by Jase, 04 March 2009 - 04:35 PM.


#17 Jase

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:33 PM

Don't come with that dictionary crap! It's a well know fact that irony is not in the dictionary, thus it's ironic.

It's very similar to the fact that gullible is not in the dictionary.


Really? Not in the dictionary? Isn't that ironic.

#18 natty

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:35 PM

Really? Not in the dictionary? Isn't that ironic.


You learn quick.

#19 mmmbeans

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:41 PM

Social Darwinism is a component of all changing government systems. (It was even evident in our last election here in good old america) People seem to associate social darwinism automatically with eugenics, which I believe to be false. (another arab-muslim type confusion)

Generally fascists dictators use another method to gain power, (hitler, quasi-socialism; mao and stalin, communism) and then use fascism to keep power.


eugenics?.... dunno about all that.

Capitalism has a large aspect of social darwinism in it, in that the fit prosper and the unfit fall by the wayside. Fascism takes this to an extreme. Communism is the exact opposite of this. Fascism=/dictatorship, dictatorial power is a part of a fascistic government but is hardly the defining characteristic. Fascism is heavily nationalistic and rabidly corporate, communism being inherently based in class can be, by definition, neither of those things.

I'm not arguing that you're wrong in your assessment of leadership tactics by individuals, I'm saying to define Stalin or Mao as communistic or Hitler as socialistic is a misrepresentation of communist, socialist, and fascist ideals.

#20 Murph

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:48 PM

Still waiting on the vagina pic.

#21 Matt Foley

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:49 PM

Woman: Oh. How do you do?
King Arthur: How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
Woman: King of the who?
King Arthur: King of the Britons.
Woman: Who are the Britons?
King Arthur: Well, we all are. We are all Britons. And I am your king.
Woman: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You'rw foolin' yourself! We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Woman: Oh, there you go bringing class into it again.
Dennis: Well, that's what it's all about! If only people would...
King Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
King Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord.
Dennis: I told you, we're an anarco-sydicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...
King Arthur: Yes...
Dennis: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
King Arthur: Yes I see...
Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...
King Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: ...but by a two thirds majority in the case of...
King Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?

#22 Jase

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:59 PM

eugenics?.... dunno about all that.

Capitalism has a large aspect of social darwinism in it, in that the fit prosper and the unfit fall by the wayside. Fascism takes this to an extreme. Communism is the exact opposite of this. Fascism=/dictatorship, dictatorial power is a part of a fascistic government but is hardly the defining characteristic. Fascism is heavily nationalistic and rabidly corporate, communism being inherently based in class can be, by definition, neither of those things.

I'm not arguing that you're wrong in your assessment of leadership tactics by individuals, I'm saying to define Stalin or Mao as communistic or Hitler as socialistic is a misrepresentation of communist, socialist, and fascist ideals.


Fascism is heavily nationalistic but does not need to be rabidly corporate.

The trouble is that there is disagreement between people in what the term fascism actually means. If we're talking strictly about mussolini's original form of government, you're right. But the term fascism has broadened over time.

#23 mmmbeans

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 05:02 PM

Woman: Oh. How do you do?
King Arthur: How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
Woman: King of the who?
King Arthur: King of the Britons.
Woman: Who are the Britons?
King Arthur: Well, we all are. We are all Britons. And I am your king.
Woman: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You'rw foolin' yourself! We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Woman: Oh, there you go bringing class into it again.
Dennis: Well, that's what it's all about! If only people would...
King Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
King Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord.
Dennis: I told you, we're an anarco-sydicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...
King Arthur: Yes...
Dennis: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
King Arthur: Yes I see...
Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...
King Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: ...but by a two thirds majority in the case of...
King Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?


strange women, lyin in ponds, distributin swords is no basis for a system of government!

#24 Htar

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:09 PM

This is the love and compassion shared by most libs...Nothing surprising at all...Just typical.

Hate oozes from them!

#25 mmmbeans

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:20 PM

This is the love and compassion shared by most libs...Nothing surprising at all...Just typical.

Hate oozes from them!


Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

#26 stirs

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 10:26 PM

thats an angry chick right there



amelia scott aka FIZ

#27 Matt Foley

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 10:50 PM

amelia scott aka FIZ


:D

#28 Epistaxis

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 02:05 PM

eugenics?.... dunno about all that.

Capitalism has a large aspect of social darwinism in it, in that the fit prosper and the unfit fall by the wayside. Fascism takes this to an extreme. Communism is the exact opposite of this. Fascism=/dictatorship, dictatorial power is a part of a fascistic government but is hardly the defining characteristic. Fascism is heavily nationalistic and rabidly corporate, communism being inherently based in class can be, by definition, neither of those things.

I'm not arguing that you're wrong in your assessment of leadership tactics by individuals, I'm saying to define Stalin or Mao as communistic or Hitler as socialistic is a misrepresentation of communist, socialist, and fascist ideals.



Aha.
But you have hit on the theme of what I was getting at, and the concept behind the book I just read.

Communism IN THEORY attempts to create the proletariat, the masses, the equality that it's adherents crave.

Yet, IN PRACTICE, it simply creates a DIFFERENT elite, one chosen not by merit (or in some cases the ability to better navigate the system:)).
But rather it creates it's own elite in the form of the all important government position. So substitute the evil corporate ruling machine for the evil government ruling machine and you have a people no better off.
A people that still have a ruling class to be jealous of, and in most cases even more powerless to effect any change on their status within that system.

You are correct, but the comparison of the end result of the systems, as shown by the extreme examples of rulers such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. has merit and therefore is worthy of comparison and discussion.


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