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Police officer killed responding to fleeing suspects.


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#16 Kurb

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:13 AM

Another conversation is the StarNews and WECT sueing the Wilmington PD to get the incar camera footage of the wreck.

#17 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:16 AM

Another conversation is the StarNews and WECT sueing the Wilmington PD to get the incar camera footage of the wreck.


Yeah, the initial newspaper article I read mentioned this... and at first the police chief would not release the crash details like the officers speed, etc. I doubt that the police will release that in car footage, the paper and TV will end up taking them to court.

Again, I hate it for the officer and his family, but that footage and all other details are public record and should be released. Obviously if there is anything on there that shows him or his injuries, that should be kept private.

#18 Kurb

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:20 AM

http://www.wwaytv3.c..._car_crash/03_0

#19 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:22 AM

Wow, I'm surprised that they released it. Good.

He was hauling ass down Shipyard, and he cut it hard to avoid that box, no wonder he lost it.

#20 mmmbeans

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:28 AM

if the cop had hit a kid would he have been charged?

#21 Kurb

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:33 AM

I thought he was going down Market ?

That time of night it would be easier to drive that fast, wilmington is pretty quiet then.

I do think it's poor taste of the local media to promote such, but it is there job.
It's not like you see the guy actually dying in the video.

#22 Zaximus

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:36 AM

They article didn't mention that they threw the box down there, and even if they did, it's like the size of a shoe-box, I doubt they meant harm and I doubt they put that on the road at all.

So the criminals were arrested for weed? You are driving 100mph to get to somewhere, to take down some guys with pot and a gun, at 1am in the morning when no one else is on the roads and in danger? No reason to drive that fast.

I know they want to blame someone, but making the criminals scapegoats for this is not right.

#23 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:37 AM

I thought he was going down Market ?

That time of night it would be easier to drive that fast, wilmington is pretty quiet then.

I do think it's poor taste of the local media to promote such, but it is there job.
It's not like you see the guy actually dying in the video.


It was Shipyard... he crashed into the woods across from Pine Valley Baptist church there near the bowling alley. I don't have a problem with the video being released as long as it didn't actually show him getting killed or his injuries.

#24 LiQuiD

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 11:34 AM

Just another shining reason to decriminalize marijuana, imho.

#25 cookinwithgas

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 12:09 PM

The more I think about it, the more I think that 100MPH on a city street to join a chase is completely ridiculous.

A lot of guys become cops because they are thrill seekers - the odds are even that this guy liked the idea of driving that fast, and didn't want to be "left out" of the chase. Trained or not, going that fast on a local road is a very dangerous thing to do - not only to himself but anyone else out on the road. What if he had lost control and hit another car and killed a family? Would he be charged with murder? Or would the suspect have to face that charge as well?

And charges aside, common sense should dictate that going that fast to join an already managed persuit is not that great an idea, unless there was say, a kidnap victim or something similar involved where a citizen faced an immediate threat to their life. And in that case, the officer was taking a calculated risk in driving that fast, which is not the direct responsibility of the persued - who, according to the Constitution, is innocent until proven guilty.

If this case makes it anywhere I would be surprised but what do I know.

Edited by cookinwithgas, 11 March 2009 - 12:31 PM.
spelling


#26 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 12:20 PM

The more I think about it, the more I think that 100MPH on a city street to join a chase is completely ridiculous.

A lot of guys become cops because they are thrill seekers - the odds are even that this guy liked the idea of driving that fast, and didn't want to be "felt out" of the chase. Trained or not, going that fast on a local road is a very dangerous thing to do - not only to himself but anyone else out on the road. What if he had lost control and hit another car and killed a family? Would he be charged with murder? Or would the suspect have to face that charge as well?

And charges aside, common sense should dictate that going that fast to join an already managed persuit is not that great an idea, unless there was say, a kidnap victim or something similar involved where a citizen faced an immediate threat to their life. And in that case, the officer was taking a calculated risk in driving that fast, which is not the direct responsibility of the persued - who, according to the Constitution, is innocent until proven guilty.

If this case makes it anywhere I would be surprised but what do I know.



I completely agree with your assessment. I know that road and 100MPH in daylight without traffic would be dangerous... it's got a ton of sideroads and drives accessing it AND it is very rough, as in needs a lot of repair. AT 100MPH, he has got to be well out driving the range of even his high beam headlights, which is why he saw the box so late and swerved (too hard) to miss it. From everything I've read about the crash there was no legitmate reason for him to be driving that fast and his speed directly caused the crash.

I suspect that a good defense lawyer will get these 2nd degree murder charges dismissed or at least reduced. I can say that based on the facts that I've seen, if I were on that jury I could not convict that guy of murder in this case. Hopefully the jury will get it right, but sometimes they don't.

#27 Inimicus

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 12:28 PM

I have no doubt that one of the questions the Grand Jury asked, re-asked, and then asked again was whether or not the officer in question was operating within the guidelines, regulations, and laws that govern the Wilmington Police Department. If he was outside any of those prescribed limits you can bet your bottom dollar that the Grand Jury wouldn't have returned the indictment. Remember, this isn't some over zealous DA looking to make a splash, this was a Grand Jury that heard testimony for two days before choosing the charge the guy with the 2nd degree murder.

Got a problem with the pursuit laws and regs? Fine. Work to have them changed. But for today, the officers speed seems to not be part of the equation.

#28 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 03:14 PM

I have no doubt that one of the questions the Grand Jury asked, re-asked, and then asked again was whether or not the officer in question was operating within the guidelines, regulations, and laws that govern the Wilmington Police Department. If he was outside any of those prescribed limits you can bet your bottom dollar that the Grand Jury wouldn't have returned the indictment. Remember, this isn't some over zealous DA looking to make a splash, this was a Grand Jury that heard testimony for two days before choosing the charge the guy with the 2nd degree murder.

Got a problem with the pursuit laws and regs? Fine. Work to have them changed. But for today, the officers speed seems to not be part of the equation.


I certainly don't know about the GJ deliberations, and I hope that they did ask about those things... this is what the latest newspaper article says...

The grand jury met Monday and Tuesday, watching videotapes and hearing testimony from witnesses from the Wilmington Police Department and State Bureau of Investigation, prosecutors said Tuesday. It indicted Pierce on the second-degree murder charge under an “implied malice” theory, District Attorney Ben David said in a news release.

Implied malice holds that a “defendant who intentionally engages in reckless conduct that is inherently dangerous to human life can be charged with murder if he should have foreseen the actual harm his conduct may have caused,” David wrote in the release.


http://www.starnewso...officer-s-death

That theory of "implied malice" seems very thin to me for convicting this guy of 2nd degree murder particularly given the fact that the officer who crashed wasn't actually involved in the chase, but was in route to it.


Even the DA who's prosecuting it seems to have his doubts...

David acknowledged that there has been no second-degree murder case in North Carolina with facts similar to this case and that a legal precedent would have to be set for Pierce to be convicted.

“But we are prepared to do everything within the bounds of the law to hold the driver fully responsible for the death of Officer Matthews. …If we have to fight to make precedent in this state, frankly, we believe this is a fight worth having,” David said.



#29 cookinwithgas

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 03:20 PM

If a officer is responding to a domestic disturbance call, and goes 100MPH and dies en route, can the person who the call was made against be charged with second degree murder?

Even if it turns out he was innocent later?

#30 engine9

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 03:29 PM

If a officer is responding to a domestic disturbance call, and goes 100MPH and dies en route, can the person who the call was made against be charged with second degree murder?

Even if it turns out he was innocent later?


no, but chances are the woman involved can be charged with first degree should've shut the fug up.


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