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In-State College Tuition for Illegal Immigrants


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#37 Fiz

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:27 AM

Elaborate por favor.

sure, it's relatively simple.

the less money a person makes the higher percentage of their money they have to spend to make it through the year.

a person making 25,000 dollars a year is almost certainly not going to be putting money into a savings account, for example, or investing it in the stock market. Almost everything they make they'll have to spend, be it in the form of rent, groceries, car payments, repairs, clothes, etc. State depending, of course, due to different tax laws and exemptions and what not, all of this is going to be taxed through sales tax.

now of course it's not that simple. state by state, tax codes are very different, blah blah blah. with regard to illegal immigrants, it's impossible to know just what percentage they're sending back to their families in their original countries, if any at all. still, in the grand scheme of things, a lower class person is almost certainly going to be taxed on a higher percentage of their money than a person in the upper class.

#38 Fiz

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:29 AM

If they want to become a naturalized citizen of this country I will welcome them with open arms once they follow immigration procedures and obtain proper documentation.

do you have any idea how difficult it is for people to become legal citizens of this country?

No
Not if it provides ILLEGAL immigrants a way to circumvent the proper methods of immigration.

but it would be a proper means of naturalization. that's the point of it. i don't think you understand what the dream act is.

Absolutely not.

well at least you're consistent.

#39 engine9

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:41 AM

sure, it's relatively simple.

the less money a person makes the higher percentage of their money they have to spend to make it through the year.

a person making 25,000 dollars a year is almost certainly not going to be putting money into a savings account, for example, or investing it in the stock market. Almost everything they make they'll have to spend, be it in the form of rent, groceries, car payments, repairs, clothes, etc. State depending, of course, due to different tax laws and exemptions and what not, all of this is going to be taxed through sales tax.

now of course it's not that simple. state by state, tax codes are very different, blah blah blah. with regard to illegal immigrants, it's impossible to know just what percentage they're sending back to their families in their original countries, if any at all. still, in the grand scheme of things, a lower class person is almost certainly going to be taxed on a higher percentage of their money than a person in the upper class.


ah ok, I agree.

#40 Fiz

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:44 AM

ah ok, I agree.


this is also the crux of the argument between progressive and regressive taxation, or flat/fair tax.

advocates of regressive taxation will claim that even though they're paying taxes on a lower percetage of their money, they individually are paying more money into the system than someone making 12 grande a year. it doesn't phase them, of course, that that line of thinking essentially punishes people for not being as relatively succesful as their economic betters.

#41 Epistaxis

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:47 AM

I really struggle with everything related to the topic of immigration.

Interestingly, my wife, a legal immigrant and naturalized citizen, has no problem at all.
Her opinion is.....what part of "illegal" do you not understand?

I'm a bit more wishy washy.

While I would prefer a totally secure border and only legal immigration, this is seemingly impossible.
Esp. since employer's feet are not held to the fire, as they should be, since I think if you forced employers to follow the law you would see less illegal immigration.

*sigh*

I WANT people to further their educations whenever possible. I WANT people to have better lives. I'm not sure I want this to happen in place of legal residents, since we all know the limited nature of spots available for higher education.

#42 Fiz

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:49 AM

since we all know the limited nature of spots available for higher education.


um what

#43 Epistaxis

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:51 AM

Am I speaking Spanish?

#44 Fiz

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:53 AM

Am I speaking Spanish?

do you think there is an epidemic of students in this country who have the grades and means of paying for it, whether it being in state tuition, student loans, pell grants, or living in states like florida, georgia, or california, that can't find a place in a university?

if you do i'd love to see something backing up your belief.

#45 Panther'sBigD

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:57 AM

this is also the crux of the argument between progressive and regressive taxation, or flat/fair tax.

advocates of regressive taxation will claim that even though they're paying taxes on a lower percetage of their money, they individually are paying more money into the system than someone making 12 grande a year. it doesn't phase them, of course, that that line of thinking essentially punishes people for not being as relatively succesful as their economic betters.


But where is there justification for punishing someone who is one of those 'economic betters?'

#46 Fiz

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 12:01 PM

But where is there justification for punishing someone who is one of those 'economic betters?'


the argument that the government does more for the upper half of society than the lower half.

subsidizing the construction of airports instead of egalitarian rail systems, wars to gain access to natural resources, economic intervention to open new markets, a government that caters almost exclusively to the upper classes. stuff like that.

hell, basic welfare is almost certainly just a means of keeping the unwashed masses from revolting.

#47 Epistaxis

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 12:05 PM

Perhaps I am using flawed logic, but my understanding is that a limited number of spots exist at institutions of higher learning. That is the way it was when I went to school anyway. Also, I would assume that the amount of grant and loan money that is available is not infinite.

If 1, 2 or 3 of these spots are taken by an illegal immigrant, it logically means that 1, 2, or 3 spots would then be unavailable to a legal resident.

Perhaps the numbers are so small as to be inconsequential, and these spots can be easily absorbed in to the existing infrastructure of the university system (ie housing, student to teacher ratios, etc.).

I don't know.

Since the topic being discussed is much more focused, namely illegals paying in-state vs. out of state tuition it is clear I am taking a bit of a tangent, but I wonder if you think the point is invalid.

Would resources, limited resources, be taken away from legal residents of a state and be diverted to an illegal resident?
Even if the illegal is more qualified academically, you could certainly see how this might not be popular.

#48 Fiz

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 12:08 PM

Perhaps I am using flawed logic, but my understanding is that a limited number of spots exist at institutions of higher learning. That is the way it was when I went to school anyway. Also, I would assume that the amount of grant and loan money that is available is not infinite.

both of these assumptions are wrong.

If 1, 2 or 3 of this spots are taken by an illegal immigrant, it logically means that 1, 2, or 3 spots would then be unavailable to a legal resident.

at that specific university. there are plenty of other places.

Would resources, limited resources, be taken away from legal residents of a state and be diverted to an illegal resident?

education is not a limited resource.