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christmas...for non christians


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#166 cookinwithgas

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 09:51 AM

I'd rather discuss the foibles of organized religion than the possibility of Constitutional Amendments about gay people.

#167 sunbunny

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 10:12 AM

I had no idea non christians were so obsessed with christianity. Seems that a lot of the threads on this board right now are non christians talking about christianity. I guess these types of threads are all we have to look forward to for the next four years since Bush is no longer president.


Where are you getting that from this thread? The OP opened up the thread bashing others for celebrating Christmas. Are they not to respond?

I don't think anyone should be bashed for the religion of their choice.

#168 Zaximus

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 12:13 PM

While I am a Christian, I'm not going to BASH people for celebrating Christmas. It's America, you can celebrate what you want, unless you of course ARE Christian and want a tree up in a library.

For Christians, let's celebrate the birth of Christ and celebrate with our friends and family and be happy for what we have, for non-Christians, let's celebrate your friends and families and what you have.

I've made it a goal to see all my family within driving distance this Christmas season, wife's side included :).

#169 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 02:56 PM

Where are you getting that from this thread? The OP opened up the thread bashing others for celebrating Christmas. Are they not to respond?

I don't think anyone should be bashed for the religion of their choice.


I was talking about the board in general not this specific thread, this just happened to be the one at the top at the time.

#170 XClown1986

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 04:31 PM

Wasn't sure if I was going to post a response on this topic, mostly because it kind of steered away from Christmas and more to religion in general. But since I myself find the conversation intriguing I thought I might add in my two cents.

I myself am a former Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, and for a brief stint Atheist. lol. I tried to go to different types of churches because each one seemed to leave me with more questions than answers. I have read a good chunk of the Bible, not all of it, but a good bit. After trying on all those churches on for size I find it VERY hard to believe that you have to be part of a "club" persay in order to get to where you want to be after death. Christians will drag you to their church by your hair if you'd let them. I know, Ive been nagged many times. I really believe that if you are a good person, that does good things why should you "burn in eternal flame" because you decided to watch the game instead of sing a hymn? Doesn't make sense. I do believe there is an unknown force that connects all of us and everything but it has got to be of a nature we can't understand, which was made easier to understand by calling it "God" or "Jesus", because it's easier to grasp when personified. In reality I think it's much deeper than that. Like trying to describe color to a blind person. Not so cut and dry.

#171 OneBadassCat

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 05:18 PM

Its because Christmas is more tradition now, also because its a consumer holiday. Gift giving, having a Christmas tree is still a good time for family and friends so it still has value to people weather they are christian or not.

#172 Raskle

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 05:19 PM

Why all the arguments folks? We all know that Christianity and Judaism were just blatant ripoffs of Taoism, made up by people who were too lazy to look within themselves for the answers anyways!





And yeah, I'm just starting more sh*t here, hehehe

#173 stwall

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:39 AM

OK, Lets put this baby to rest.

Here is the History of Christmas:

Believe it or not, many of the traditions that we observe during the Christmas holiday season began way before the birth of Christ. Exchanging gifts, decorating trees, and the burning of the Yule log were all winter traditions that began before Christ was born, but were eventually incorporated into the holiday that became known as Christmas, and became part of Christmas history.

Over 4000 years ago, the Mesopotamians celebrated each new year with a 12-day festival, called Zagmuth. The Mesopotamians, who believed in many gods, held this festival in support of their chief god, Marduk, because they believed that he battled the monsters of chaos at the beginning of each winter. It is from this festival that the 12 days of Christmas is believed to have originated.

The ancient Romans held a celebration each year in honor of their god Saturn. The festival, which they called Saturnalia, began in the middle of December and lasted until the first of January. The Romans decorated their homes with garlands, as well as trees upon which they hung candles. During the festival the citizens of Rome would visit each other’s homes and hold great feasts. One of the theories of how the tradition of the giving of Christmas gifts came about was from the Roman practice of exchanging gifts between family and neighbors during the festival of Saturnalia to promote good luck.

During the winter in ancient Scandinavia there would be a certain amount of days where the sun would not shine. Upon the return of the first sunlight, the Scandinavians would hold a festival called the Yuletide. A Yule log would be burned in a special fire, and everyone would gather around the fire and hold a great feast. To remind themselves that the spring and summer would surely return again, people in some areas of Scandinavia would tie apples to tree branches. The tradition of the Christmas tree is believed to have evolved from this ritual, as well as from the Roman ritual of decorating trees with candles during the festival of Saturnalia. Some believe that the tradition of singing carols began when people in Scandinavia would sing celebration songs on the Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year, which happened around December 22nd.

One theory about the evolution of the winter celebrations to the celebration of the birth of Jesus is that the Roman emperor Constantine, who converted to Christianity, wanted to incorporate the pagan winter rituals together with the celebration of Jesus’ birth. In this way, Constantine hoped to help both pagans and Christians celebrate together. Many believe that this is the reason for celebrating the birth of Christ on December 25th. It is widely believed today that Jesus was not actually born on, or even close to, December 25th. Eventually, the Roman church became almost completely successful in making the December celebration only about the birth of Christ, replacing any celebrations that were in honor of pagan gods.

To me it doesn't matter were the holiday comes from, but how you celebrate it. For my family we chose to make this a special time were we focus on God and thank him for his wonderful gift of salvation. His gift of mercy and grace threw Christ Jesus.

#174 stwall

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:43 AM

We got no problem in our family of taking other religions holy days and making them about Jesus. Because we also celebrate Hanukkah every year too. We just make it all about Jesus.

Hanukkah this year is Dec. 21-29. In case you were wondering.

#175 stwall

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:57 AM

I really believe that if you are a good person, that does good things why should you "burn in eternal flame" because you decided to watch the game instead of sing a hymn? Doesn't make sense.



You will be sent to hell because of your sins not simply because you didn't go to church.
Salvation is not a balance sheet that Gods going to check off when you get to judgment day. He's not going to say. " Well you had 15 bad marks, but you had 30 good deeds. So, your in Welcome to Heaven!"

The bible is pretty clear you can't earn salvation. Sin is a black mark in your soul. It's a part of your fallen human nature. The part that says I'm doing it my way. I'm looking out for my own interests. I come first.

How many good deeds is it going to take to erase the black mark in your soul?

#176 XClown1986

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 11:18 PM

You will be sent to hell because of your sins not simply because you didn't go to church.
Salvation is not a balance sheet that Gods going to check off when you get to judgment day. He's not going to say. " Well you had 15 bad marks, but you had 30 good deeds. So, your in Welcome to Heaven!"

The bible is pretty clear you can't earn salvation. Sin is a black mark in your soul. It's a part of your fallen human nature. The part that says I'm doing it my way. I'm looking out for my own interests. I come first.

How many good deeds is it going to take to erase the black mark in your soul?


If you can't earn salvation, then how the hell do you get it? Isn't the way you live a proof of worth, or EARNING of salvation by how you live it? Or is it a predisposition at birth? If that's what you mean then we can all say fug it cuz we can't do anything about where we are going anyway.

Im not saying that if the bad outweighs the good you win. It's not a game, of course. What I mean is that you can do good, without being religious. And I think that is warrant enough to get to heaven instead of hell.

#177 stwall

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 02:02 AM

If you can't earn salvation, then how the hell do you get it? Isn't the way you live a proof of worth, or EARNING of salvation by how you live it? Or is it a predisposition at birth? If that's what you mean then we can all say f*ck it cuz we can't do anything about where we are going anyway.

I'm not saying that if the bad outweighs the good you win. It's not a game, of course. What I mean is that you can do good, without being religious. And I think that is warrant enough to get to heaven instead of hell.



Salvation is a gift. You just have to receive it. By believing and accepting the sacrifice of Jesus.

I'm not talking about simply acknowledging the existence of or mentally assenting to the fact that a person named Jesus lived, and died on the cross for me. I'm talking about believing deep down in your heart and soul to the point it impacts every aspect of your life.

Then the good deeds and acts you do are not done to earn or prove anything, but done out of a response to all that Christ has done for us.

Christ loved me enough to lay his life down for me. That's a love and sacrifice I don't deserve, and could never repay. The only thing I can do is allow that love to flow threw me and share it with the people around me.

Yes you are right you can do good with out having Jesus in your life. But what is your motivation behind the good deeds?

I believe that God cares more about the motives behind our actions than the actions them selves.

#178 cookinwithgas

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:10 AM

Getting rewarded for believing an unprovable story from thousands of years ago is a religious marketers wet dream.

#179 RockECU

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:39 AM

We got no problem in our family of taking other religions holy days and making them about Jesus. Because we also celebrate Hanukkah every year too. We just make it all about Jesus.

Hanukkah this year is Dec. 21-29. In case you were wondering.


Why Hanukkah but no Yom Kippur? Oh, that's right.. twice the gifts without having to repent for your sins! I gotcha!

#180 stwall

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:53 AM

Why Hanukkah but no Yom Kippur? Oh, that's right.. twice the gifts without having to repent for your sins! I gotcha!


No we do Yom Kippur and passover as well.


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