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Freeman > Newton


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#31 Swashbuckler

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:19 AM

You all seem to forget that Freeman didn't have Steve Smith or Jeremy Shockey to throw to his rookie year either. We had the likes of Michael Clayton, Maurice Stovall and Antonio Bryant being incapable of starting more than a few games in a row. Our biggest weapon was Kellen Winslow! If you need any proof that an elite WR can make any QB look good look no further than Randy Moss fluffing Culpepper for all those years in Minnesota. A great QB can sometimes only be as great as the players around him and he in return makes them great. It's cyclical.

Newton set a record, big fuging whoop. The GOAT's like Graham, Unitas, Marino, Elway, Montana, Favre, Manning and Brady (and others I've forgotten off the top of my head) have all the other records anyway.

You can't compare Freeman to Newton by any stretch because it's only been 2 games. But the biggest glaring intangible that sets them apart by their 1st 2 games is that by Freeman's 1st-2nd game he was the unquestioned leader of the offense and the entire offense found the will to win through him.

Can you say the same about Newton or do they all look up to Steve Smith still?

#32 The Saltman

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:22 AM

Thats all nice and good swashypoo. Cam looks like he is leading the team to me. Cam has only played 2 games and yet you say Freeman lead the team to win through him?

Big whoop its now year three. If the guy cant get you to the playoffs this year unlike last year then winning doesnt mean crap.

#33 cookinwithgas

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:24 AM

Yeah that Brandon LaFell really had some career before Cam showed up for him to help out.

#34 Swashbuckler

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:36 AM

Thats all nice and good swashypoo. Cam looks like he is leading the team to me. Cam has only played 2 games and yet you say Freeman lead the team to win through him?

Big whoop its now year three. If the guy cant get you to the playoffs this year unlike last year then winning doesnt mean crap.


Yes, Freeman won his first start and rallied the entire team.

http://www.nfl.com/g...ights&tab=recap

Looks like an unquestioned leader to me despite how piss poor our defense was that year.

Whether or not the Bucs make the playoffs is irrelevant, most fans here in Tampa Bay know we are still rebuilding and have to make changes to the offensive line and our linebacking corps before making that push. We will find ways to win throughout the year but the ultimate goal is a championship. I'm realistic enough to know it won't come this year.

PS- Lombardi just rolled in his grave with what you said. "Winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing."

Edited by Swashbuckler, 20 September 2011 - 09:41 AM.


#35 Nicks To The Colts

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:38 AM

Two months ago: "Newton will bust just as bad or worse than JaMarcus Russell"
Today: "Oh so he's smashing rookie records. Big whoop"

#36 The Saltman

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:41 AM

winning doesnt mean shiit if you dont get into the tournament. You win to get into the playoffs to get into the superbowl and win it. You dont win so you can go on to another teams messageboard to gloat about it. I mean IM happy about the records Cam is producing but its only now week three and I am very disappointed with the losses.

Get into the playoffs with your badass QB and then you can come and trash talk to a team that just drafted a player first overall and was the worst team in the league.

#37 Mvp2014

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:43 AM

You all seem to forget that Freeman didn't have Steve Smith or Jeremy Shockey to throw to his rookie year either. We had the likes of Michael Clayton, Maurice Stovall and Antonio Bryant being incapable of starting more than a few games in a row. Our biggest weapon was Kellen Winslow! If you need any proof that an elite WR can make any QB look good look no further than Randy Moss fluffing Culpepper for all those years in Minnesota. A great QB can sometimes only be as great as the players around him and he in return makes them great. It's cyclical.

Newton set a record, big fuging whoop. The GOAT's like Graham, Unitas, Marino, Elway, Montana, Favre, Manning and Brady (and others I've forgotten off the top of my head) have all the other records anyway.

You can't compare Freeman to Newton by any stretch because it's only been 2 games. But the biggest glaring intangible that sets them apart by their 1st 2 games is that by Freeman's 1st-2nd game he was the unquestioned leader of the offense and the entire offense found the will to win through him.

Can you say the same about Newton or do they all look up to Steve Smith still?


1,855 yards

10 TD

18 INT

42 yards was longest pass

There's no comparison. Cam has half of that yardage in 2 games and already had a longer pass against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Try again.

#38 Swashbuckler

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:44 AM

Two months ago: "Newton will bust just as bad or worse than JaMarcus Russell"
Today: "Oh so he's smashing rookie records. Big whoop"


Indeed, it is big whoop, it's for passing yards. You don't think someone else will ever come along and break that record seeing as the NFL is almost exclusively a passing league? Ryan Leaf won his 1st 2 starts and it was absolutely unprecedented. My biggest question with Newton has always been his maturity and dedication to the sport. In the National Championship game as he drove against the Oregon defense his face said to me "I have no idea what I'm doing".

I'll GLADLY eat my crow if this kid becomes a superstar.

#39 Swashbuckler

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:48 AM

1,855 yards

10 TD

18 INT

42 yards was longest pass

There's no comparison. Cam has half of that yardage in 2 games and already had a longer pass against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Try again.


Dude you're talking about PASSING YARDS. You could hit a 100 yard Hail Mary just before half time to tie the game but if your offense doesn't score for the rest of the game and you still lose then why should your PASSING YARDS account for anything. I'm talking about LEADERSHIP, rallying the troops in just your 1st game and willing a hapless team that was 0-8 to find victory.

Does the offense rally around Steve Smith or Cam Newton? If you say the latter then you're a damn liar. A man of that talent does not suddenly surrender his unquestioned authority once Newton strolls along. Delhomme was his bitch and everyone knew it. Why should Newton be any different?

#40 The Saltman

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:49 AM

Keep talking your shiit and in another 3 years you guys will be in the basement of the NFC south again rebuilding once more.

#41 The Saltman

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:50 AM

Dude you're talking about PASSING YARDS. You could hit a 100 yard Hail Mary just before half time to tie the game but if your offense doesn't score for the rest of the game and you still lose then why should your PASSING YARDS account for anything. I'm talking about LEADERSHIP, rallying the troops in just your 1st game and willing a hapless team that was 0-8 to find victory.

Does the offense rally around Steve Smith or Cam Newton? If you say the latter then you're a damn liar. A man of that talent does not suddenly surrender his unquestioned authority once Newton strolls along. Delhomme was his bitch and everyone knew it. Why should Newton be any different?


Now you're talking out of your ass. Surprising since most things usually go into it.

#42 Swashbuckler

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:53 AM

winning doesnt mean shiit if you dont get into the tournament. You win to get into the playoffs to get into the superbowl and win it. You dont win so you can go on to another teams messageboard to gloat about it. I mean IM happy about the records Cam is producing but its only now week three and I am very disappointed with the losses.

Get into the playoffs with your badass QB and then you can come and trash talk to a team that just drafted a player first overall and was the worst team in the league.


Salt, Sun started the thread and I'm posting in it. I'm comparing Freeman and Newton up to their 2nd starts in the league and leadership on the field.

As for winning, the 2007 season (aka last time we went to the playoffs) proved it's better to not even make the playoffs than to get in and break your own heart with a 9-7 team and go 1 and done because you don't have the talent to hang with the big boys. You have to make it to the big dance in order to compete for a championship, but what's the point if you don't know the steps? I'd sacrifice the playoffs this year for a Cinderella run to the NFC Championship next year that sees us lose as to teach our boys what it's like to go deep into the playoffs and what true victory heartbreak feels like.

It builds character

You're not going to find me taking a page out of Karma's book and going "BWA HA HA 0-4 WE R00L DESPITE THE FACT YOU WERE REBUILDING!"

#43 Nicks To The Colts

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:54 AM

Indeed, it is big whoop, it's for passing yards. You don't think someone else will ever come along and break that record seeing as the NFL is almost exclusively a passing league? Ryan Leaf won his 1st 2 starts and it was absolutely unprecedented. My biggest question with Newton has always been his maturity and dedication to the sport. In the National Championship game as he drove against the Oregon defense his face said to me "I have no idea what I'm doing".

I'll GLADLY eat my crow if this kid becomes a superstar.


Yeah learning to run an NFL offense in like six weeks with no OTAs. Questionable dedication if I've ever seen it.

#44 The Saltman

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:56 AM

You can compare by watching the games and looking at stats but how do you know if Cam is leading the team or not? Are you on the field? In the huddle?

In the lockeroom? Do you play on our practice squad? Have you heard this from a couple of players on the field? No ok so then STFU until you have some sort of concrete evidence.

#45 Nicks To The Colts

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:56 AM

It sure as poo looked like Cam was leading the offense to me

Compare his demeanor on field to Jimmy Jam last season


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