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Julius Peppers, No Problem.


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#76 SteveSmith89

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:18 PM

Pep is a beast. Anyone hating on him is just bitter than he's no longer a Panther or bitter at the way he left.

The game is more than stats. The game is far more than one stat like sacks.

Continue.

#77 KSpan

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:21 PM

I would take a fully-motivated, fired-up Peppers over pretty much anyone else. Problem is that that Julius isn't always the one on the field, though he seems to have become more consistent (perhaps happier?) the last couple of years.

#78 PantherBrew

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:22 PM

Making the Grade: 4-3 Defensive Ends, 2008-2010

We kicked off a stroll through our three-year grades last week with the quarterbacks and running backs. This week we’re changing things up a little and jumping to the other side of the ball to have a look at some defenders.

We’re going to be focusing purely on those who played predominantly as defensive ends in 4-3 alignments to get the week started, and it isn’t just going to be about fearsome pass rushers – we’re opting instead to reward the more complete defensive ends.

Setting the qualifying bar, we took the five players that had played the most snaps in the past three years, averaged that number and allowed in anyone with at least two-thirds as many. Simple enough. The cut-off point was 1,835 snaps for those keeping count.

Just to give a bit of added meaning to things, we’ve weighted the gradings so that the coverage grade is worth three quarters that of the pass rushing, run defense and penalties grades.

Let’s get to the list!



1. Trent Cole, Philadelphia Eagles


In the last three years, Cole has finished fifth (2008), third (2009) and first (2010) in our overall 4-3 DE rankings, so maybe the Eagles defensive end has a point when he talks about how criminally underrated he is. He gets credit for his pass rushing, but, interestingly, he may be stronger in run defense – where he has finished with our highest grade in each of the past two years. That’s certainly not a slight to his pass rushing ability in that time, where only three defenders have accumulated more total quarterback disruptions.

Grade: +113.4


2. Dwight Freeney, Indianapolis Colts

By some distance, Freeney was the top-ranked pure pass rusher, which will come to the surprise of nobody who has watched him feast on tackles with a relentless appetite. He may always be somewhat of a liability in run defense, but when you can finish in the top two (and first twice) in our pass rusher rankings, you can look past that. Amazingly consistent.

Grade: +90.5


3. John Abraham, Atlanta Falcons

Maybe it was the 2009 where Abraham’s sack count fell off dramatically, but you get the sense Abraham is a little undervalued by some despite what he brings to the table. If you saw our Pass Rushing Productivity article that applied numbers from the last three years, you’ll see no-one has been more consistent at generating pressure. What’s more, for all the talk, he’s really not that bad a run defender. He’s not great by any stretch, but he’s not the type who sells out to get to the pass rusher at all cost. Cagy veteran who poses immense problems for offenses.

Grade: +89.48


4. Terrell Suggs, Baltimore Ravens


If you had a criticism about Suggs, and it really sticks out given the names around him, he hasn’t always got as much pressure as his reputation would suggest. Now this year he certainly turned that around with some virtuoso performances after a slowish start to the season (from Week 7 through the playoffs he had nine games with five or more pressures). But even accounting for weaker pass-rushing years in 2008 and 2009, he’s always been one of the most active defensive ends in run defense – finishing in the Top 3 of our rankings every year, and twice he has led defensive ends in defensive stops. He’s a great player but not always for the reason many assume.

Grade: +88.86


5. Julius Peppers, Chicago Bears


It’s hard to explain what seems to have happened to Julius Peppers. He has always been a very good pass rusher, but in his last two years at Carolina he just wasn’t making the equivalent kind of plays in run defense. He moves to Chicago and wham-o! With extra fire in his belly to prove those who doubted, he showed up on every play. Peppers was a real force and justified a contract that had so many zero’s on it, it was going to take something special to justify. The Bears really seem to have found out how to get the best out of him.

Grade: +79.68


6. Justin Tuck, New York Giants

Tuck is another player who doesn’t fall into the elite pass rusher category, but he’s more than good enough at that, and so complete that he was always going to finish high up this list, despite bettling a shoulder injury that you’d expect would have impacted him more. Where Tuck has really excelled is in run defense, showing a non-stop motor on every play and finishing with our third highest grade in this respect. The Giants have a number of defensive ends who can get to the quarterback, but only one who can do it all.

Grade: +71.63


7. Jared Allen, Minnesota Vikings


Make no mistake about it, Allen slipped a little this year and racked stats against some weaker tackles (he got his 2010 back on track against Levi Brown). That shouldn’t take away from a tremendous period as a Viking where he has more than made good on the price paid for his services. Fair to say he’s never been the best against the run, it tells you something that we’ve never given him a run defense rating of more than +0.7.

Grade: +68.63


8. Ray Edwards, Minnesota Vikings


It’s a bit of folly to say Edwards gets ignored by offensive co-ordinators, because if that were the case, the NFL would hold a ridiculous amount of foolish OC’s. As it is, Edwards just seems to get better and better, and it’s not hard to see why he feels the Vikings have got more from him, than he has from them. One of the two-way defenders on the list who brings pressure and steps up when teams try to run.

Grade: +64.2


9. Robert Mathis, Indianapolis Colts


As one-dimensional as Dwight Freeney? Very possibly. Mathis isn’t the best when it comes to holding his own at the point of attack, but seems to know what his game is all about. Getting up field and terrorizing right tackles and anyone else brave enough to attempt to block him. Coming off a weaker season by his standards, there’s an understandable feeling that he benefits from the presence of Freeney. Perhaps, but then it’s not like Freeney doesn’t reap rewards playing across from him too.

Grade: +61.98


10. Charles Johnson, Carolina Panthers

The only reason Charles Johnson isn’t higher up this list is that the opportunity to play hasn’t been there. If you read this piece, you’ll see just how good he has been whenever he has played – which begs the questions: why have the Panthers failed to get the most out of him until 2010? and, why didn’t they give him the franchise tag? He only led all defensive ends in stops and quarterback disruptions this year. Will be made a very rich man in free agency, and it’s because he’s more than a one season wonder.

Grade: +56.78


http://www.profootba...defensive-ends/

Edited by BruceBrewski, 26 September 2011 - 04:27 PM.


#79 jks85

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:23 PM

a lot of you/us are understandably bitter, but fools nonetheless, if you think he is not an elite defensive player


edit: pff is kind of meh-- their grading system has huge issues in practice. rating trent cole #1 is a huge lol. while he is pretty good, there are various 4-3 ends that the eagles would happily except a trade for in a vacuum

Edited by jks85, 26 September 2011 - 04:25 PM.


#80 SteveSmith89

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:24 PM

Maybe this is influencing CatsGrowl's opinion:

lol at us missing Julius Peppers. I can't stand that clown. Could you imagine if we had given him the money we used to pay Charles Johnson?

Major suckage.


:lol:

#81 Peppers90 NC

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:24 PM

man feelings get in the way logic. catsgrowl, ive noticed this with you numerous times. you gotta be female right?

#82 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:26 PM

Please highlight the part where i made any mention of Julius Peppers leaving.
Or are you making a ridiculous assumption?


Thought so.


In fact, I've said a couple times I'm glad we never gave him the huge contract that I didn't feel he was deserving of. That money rightfully went to Beason, who Peppers never at any point in his career, could hold a candlestick to Beason's level of dominance.



How about you don't ignore what the base of your post said...

which was "there was nothing to warrant that recognition for him. if he had never been a Panther you would have never listed him that high".


He has been an all pro and pro bowler the last 3 consecutive years (08,09,10). The last year being his best season of possibly his career (which he has also been recognized in).

#83 Cat'sGrowl

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:36 PM

How about you don't ignore what the base of your post said...

which was "there was nothing to warrant that recognition for him. if he had never been a Panther you would have never listed him that high".


He has been an all pro and pro bowler the last 3 consecutive years (08,09,10). The last year being his best season of possibly his career (which he has also been recognized in).


I've said already that Peppers has been either good, and on a couple occasions, great. But also as I've said, the legend that has been built for him around here is absurd. We've had people clamor to build a statue for him, suggest that he's a HoFer, when he just hasn't been THAT productive. Go compare his career to Michael Strahan's-and most importantly, what the topic was initially about, is he Top 5, and I say no. I listed a good bundle of guys I would take over Peppers. His potential was astronomical, but I don't let that sway me from the view that he never lived up to that potential. Some people are so focused on his measurables, that they don't focus on his production.

Edit: See what I mean? post after post about Pepper's being a "freak" or "an incredible athlete" but noone bothers to focus on how his performance as a DE measures up to other DE's around the league-and with the except of a few seasons-it isn't great.

Edited by Cat'sGrowl, 26 September 2011 - 04:50 PM.


#84 MrBubba

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:47 PM

Peppers is a freak, and he will be up for this game. Look for Cam to need all that scramble ability.

#85 CatMan72

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 05:25 PM

Peppers can be a very serious problem and you can bet he'll be jacked up for this game.

The good news is that Gross knows him better than he knows himself and can keep him contained. I'm sure Ron Meeks can make all kinds of suggestions on how to handle Peppers as well.

The last time we played Peppers, we had a QB who would turn tail and run the moment the play broke down, which is ABSOLUTELY the wrong thing to do against Peppers... This time we have a QB who is a bit of an athletic freak himself and will stand in the pocket and has the ability to scramble in a productive way when things break down.

We also have a coaching staff who is smart enough not to try to throw screen pass right over Peppers, that's his money play... not sure why you would EVER attempt that to the side of the field he's lined up on?

We also have weapons at TE and we make use of bubble screens, so we have the ability to get the ball out of Cam's hands fast.

All of these things, if executed correctly will go a long way in neutralizing the threat Peppers presents.

Edited by CatMan72, 26 September 2011 - 05:29 PM.


#86 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:08 PM

Peppers is probably the best de that has ever put on a Panther uniform. He is one of the top 5 in the league.

That being said, I am very happy with our defensive ends. Hardy was a steal as a 6 pick, and Charles Johnson has come into his own. Losing Peppers didn't really hurt us very much, if at all.

#87 Cat'sGrowl

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:12 PM

Peppers is probably the best de that has ever put on a Panther uniform. He is one of the top 5 in the league.

That being said, I am very happy with our defensive ends. Hardy was a steal as a 6 pick, and Charles Johnson has come into his own. Losing Peppers didn't really hurt us very much, if at all.


To be a Top 5 in the league, you actually have to play like it. You can't just be it because of the first part of your statement. This fanbase hasn't exactly seen many great DE's so I guess that's another reason why they overrate Peppers.

Also, FWIW, Reggie White is the greatest DE to ever put on a Panther's uniform. Obviously he didn't have his best days here, but still, to be correct on the technicalities. Although it appears we have a good many people here who would take Peppers over Reggie because, after all Peppers is a "freak"!!!

#88 Mr. Scot

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:13 PM

Peppers can be a very serious problem and you can bet he'll be jacked up for this game.

The good news is that Gross knows him better than he knows himself and can keep him contained. I'm sure Ron Meeks can make all kinds of suggestions on how to handle Peppers as well.

The last time we played Peppers, we had a QB who would turn tail and run the moment the play broke down, which is ABSOLUTELY the wrong thing to do against Peppers... This time we have a QB who is a bit of an athletic freak himself and will stand in the pocket and has the ability to scramble in a productive way when things break down.

We also have a coaching staff who is smart enough not to try to throw screen pass right over Peppers, that's his money play... not sure why you would EVER attempt that to the side of the field he's lined up on?

We also have weapons at TE and we make use of bubble screens, so we have the ability to get the ball out of Cam's hands fast.

All of these things, if executed correctly will go a long way in neutralizing the threat Peppers presents.

Newton vs Peppers intrigues me.

Peppers is certainly bigger (at least 40 pounds or more) but I doubt he's used to having QBs that can look him in the eye.

#89 csx

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:16 PM

To be a Top 5 in the league, you actually have to play like it. You can't just be it because of the first part of your statement. This fanbase hasn't exactly seen many great DE's so I guess that's another reason why they overrate Peppers.

Also, FWIW, Reggie White is the greatest DE to ever put on a Panther's uniform. Obviously he didn't have his best days here, but still, to be correct on the technicalities. Although it appears we have a good many people here who would take Peppers over Reggie because, after all Peppers is a "freak"!!!


Panther fans are likely the only people who would argue he isn't a top 5 DE.

#90 Carolina Fan

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:16 PM

don't care what anyone thinks, peppers the most ferocious DE in the league when he gets a shot at someone, hope cam doesn't get his bell rung.


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