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Should Tebow success get under Cam's skin


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#136 Decleater

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 07:54 PM

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Directly trying to compare them is foolish. But you can compare things like throwing motion, accuracy, etc... And there I think Cam is ahead of The Golden Calf of Bristol.


The reason you think that is simply because he is in a more uptempo offense.. it's fool's gold.

So an up tempo offense affects your throwing motion?


A slow tempo predictable offense that relies on the run game.. and a poor run game at that makes it very tough on you passing numbers.

Cam is passing on every down.. and has very good receivers and protection. This is why he looks so good.. when The Golden Calf of Bristol plays an uptempo no huddle style and isn't forced to rly on an ineffective run game which puts him in a bad position his offense and passing blossom.

That The Golden Calf of Bristol has no turnovers in this type of offense in his wins is incredible.. Cam could not do that in the same offense...

The Golden Calf of Bristol is also not a dink and dunker.. Cam is.. So was Orton..this is also why the numbers are so deceptive..

This is also why The Golden Calf of Bristol needs a better line.. because deep passing is the best part of his game.

#137 mav1234

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 07:55 PM

i dunno if I'd call the Broncos a poor run game, considering they are top 5 in ypa, yards per game, and #2 in total yards.

edit: alright you are either trolling or don't watch our games if you think Cam is, right now, a dink and dunk passer... he is most definitely operating in a vertical offense.

Edited by mav1234, 19 November 2011 - 07:57 PM.


#138 Decleater

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 07:58 PM

know why The Golden Calf of Bristol and the broncos say a prayer after every completion? because it's a miracle the ball was within 10 yards of his receiver! haar... harr... ok, bad joke, offensive, my apologies. honest.

I actually like The Golden Calf of Bristol a lot and I hope he can keep getting better, I just think it is funny to hear people think he is a better passer at this point than... well, than any other QB in the league.


But this just shows how stupid people are.. Orton was considered a good passer..

And The Golden Calf of Bristol is winning with the same team and Orton couldn't.. worse in fact. The Golden Calf of Bristol lost Lloyd before he was made starter.

Orton's numbers and play went in the tank in Fox's slow tempo offense too.

Kyle Orton had TWO road wins in his last 28 games.. The Golden Calf of Bristol had 3 road wins in his first his first 7 starts..

People think just because The Golden Calf of Bristol is so conservative passing he can't pass.. he hasn't needed to be less conservative.. because of the style of play they have. And he makes less mistakes and is more efficient than other QBs in this style.. Cam too..

#139 Decleater

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:02 PM

i dunno if I'd call the Broncos a poor run game, considering they are top 5 in ypa, yards per game, and #2 in total yards.


That is BECAUSE of The Golden Calf of Bristol.. before The Golden Calf of Bristol became the starter they were one of the wost run teams.. Because Orton is a dink and dunker like Cam.. this kills your run game. cam;s best throws are his short passes.

edit: alright you are either trolling or don't watch our games if you think Cam is, right now, a dink and dunk passer... he is most definitely operating in a vertical offense.


BECAUSE he has Steve Smith.. and great receivers opening the field and a great line protecting him..and has faced lockout Ds.

Cam's first couple games teams didn't even know he could pass because he was so atrocious in preseason.

How did Cam even start with that preseason? And Steven A Smith is railing against The Golden Calf of Bristol being made a starter.. lol It's absurd.

#140 mav1234

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:04 PM

Orton has had many years under his belt; comparing him to The Golden Calf of Bristol as a proxy for Cam is a bad idea. Plus it's not like the Broncos were running the AC with Orton. They weren't. If you want to debate Orton vs The Golden Calf of Bristol do it in a different forum, though, this is for the Panthers.

But really, my belief that Cam is a better passer and will be a better quarterback than The Golden Calf of Bristol has to do with mechanics, not the offense they are running. Hopefully The Golden Calf of Bristol keeps improving and Fox does well.

#141 CatMan72

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:04 PM

We got it guys. Alex Smith is the best QB in the league besides Aaron Rodgers.


Exactly, Alex Smith > Tom Brady based on The Golden Calf of Bristol > Cam logic.

#142 rayzor

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:05 PM

The point is if Cam was as good as people say he would have been the surefire number 2 behind The Golden Calf of Bristol.

He COULDN'T beta out Brantley behind The Golden Calf of Bristol.. and people are acting like Cam should have started over The Golden Calf of Bristol.

Cam couldn't even get on the field like The Golden Calf of Bristol was used in his freshman year to win a championship.

I am telling you.. Cam was not the passer OR runner The Golden Calf of Bristol was... and still isn't.

Cam had great runners at Aubrun that too all the pressure off him and a dominant oline. At Florida cam would have gotten KILLED trying to run and pass the ball like The Golden Calf of Bristol did.

Cam should have been the ideal replacement for The Golden Calf of Bristol but they took Brantley over Cam? That should tell you all you need to know.. and now cam is losing with much better offense than The Golden Calf of Bristol in the NFL..

And people want o make excuses for Cam? Why? What has he ever done to deserve the benefit of the doubt.. especially over The Golden Calf of Bristol and with so much offensive talent and a dominant line? Better coaching too..

you're giving The Golden Calf of Bristol too much credit and newton not enough...esp. from what he has done this season.

you must be a UF fan. i wouldn't expect you to have much of an open mind regarding either. The Golden Calf of Bristol is your boy so...

#143 Decleater

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:05 PM

The truly sad thing is that, even though you are an uber-troll, there's a 99.99% chance that you really believe what you said above.


It's the truth.. why do you think the Broncos D looks so much better? it's the slow pace and The Golden Calf of Bristol's impact on the run game..

The Golden Calf of Bristol doesn't even have good runners.. if he had Cam's runners. good lord... or his receivers... and line..

#144 CatMan72

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:09 PM

just wondering whose alt Decleater is and why he's here? did he just go searching on the web for discussions comparing newton to The Golden Calf of Bristol to make sure no one was disparaging the golden boy?

just seems silly to go make an account on some football team's fan forum for the sole purpose of talking about a QB that isn't on that team and who we aren't even going to be playing for a couple years.


Decleater = TRD.

You brought up a good point, this board should make you use a "real" email address to register, not a free email account... that would make bans much more effective.

#145 CatMan72

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:10 PM

It's the truth.. why do you think the Broncos D looks so much better? it's the slow pace and The Golden Calf of Bristol's impact on the run game..

The Golden Calf of Bristol doesn't even have good runners.. if he had Cam's runners. good lord... or his receivers... and line..


So now our poor defensive play is Cam's fault? LOL

#146 TrueDat

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:11 PM

Green Bay (9-0), New Orleans (7-3), Chicago (6-3), Atlanta (5-4) and Tennessee (5-4) are horrible teams?

Really?


Defenses! Teams who could care less how many yards the opposing team gets because they can put up more points.

Yards allowed per game. aka. "total defense":

19 New Orleans 361.4
20 Carolina Panthers 361.4
23 Minnesota Vikings 366.7
25 Chicago Bears 376.3
27 Arizona Cardinals 378.6
28 Green Bay Packers 384.8

Still amazes me how many people that sit around and talk football all day can't figure this one out. The Panthers aren't the only ones putting up a lot of passing yards on some of these teams. The Panthers are just the only ones with Steve Smith.

Yards allowed also says nothing about a team's defense ability to stop the other team from scoring points. Which is what matters. And most people still haven't figured out that throughout the course of a season the offense has more to say about how many points their defense gets put on them than their own defense does.

When two high octane passing teams meet there will be LOTS of passing yards on both sides. And lots of points too if they are both efficient. When a passing team meets a running team with a defense built to stop other teams from getting any kind of yards and runs the ball to stop the clock like:


#5 Jacksonville Jaguars: 296.4 yards.


We don't get a lot of yards either. A lot of the relationships between football and stats are counter-intuitive and you have to break down each side to figure out where the problem is. It requires more than 2+2 straight logic to figure out. And you can't just loo at one stat ranking and say this defense is "this". Or it's good at "this". It's usually wrong and a big mistake.

Some teams are just better at stopping the pass and also run the clock out a lot which simply keeps the yardage and score down for both teams:

Total pass defense:
5 Jacksonville Jaguars 189.3
9 Washington Redskins 216.7
15 Tennessee Titans 224.2

Best 3 "pass defense" teams we faced all year as of right now.

And the funny part is, these "pass defenses" are not even half responsible for stopping the pass.

This particular stat ranking is only about 25% responsible for the lack of yards the other teams get against them.
They get to decide about 25% of that number. The other team gets to decide about 25% of that number.
And the clock itself as well as the play calling decides 50% of that number.

And what accounts for lots of passing yards just as much as a team completing a pass, is the play calling, clock, and "incompletions". Yeah...not just completions, but incompletions as well.

Because when you're playbook is 80% pass, and you throw one incompletion you stop the clock when you go into your huddle for the next play. This lengthens the time of the game and often times more than doubles it. This means you're going to have lots of yards if you can just complete more than 50% of your passes. So do penalties. So when you have an inefficient offense that passes a lot, has a lot of incompletions as well as long bombs to one of the best receivers in the league, as well as penalties that stop the clock a lot...you're going to end up with lots and lots of yards...but also few points to show for it. But we're about to face yet another team with a pretty good defense, who is decent at stopping the pass:

#4 Lions 184.0 yards. "Best" pass defense we played all year. And that has so much more to do with the schedule and the teams they have faced. One of the easiest schedules in the league.

The Titans aren't doing something amazing you know. We're just one of the worst and most inefficient offenses in the league:25th! So when an all around balanced team(run + pass, offense and defense), like the Titans, faces us we get our ass whooped. Same for Atlanta. And it's ugly a lot of times.

Because to be a good team that mainly relies on the pass you have to be very efficient at it. And these teams: Green Bay (9-0), New Orleans (7-3), are winning because they have very efficient passing offenses: #1, #3. Don't matter how many yards they allow because their teams are good at getting points, which is what matters. Chicago just has an overall very efficient offense: run + pass: #8. Again, good at getting points. Defense wise...one of the "worst" in the league if you just look at the "yards" rankings that is.

You wanna win? You need an efficient offense. You want a good defense at stopping points? Get an efficient offense. You want a winning record? Get an efficient offense.

#147 Decleater

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:15 PM

you're giving The Golden Calf of Bristol too much credit and newton not enough...esp. from what he has done this season.

you must be a UF fan. i wouldn't expect you to have much of an open mind regarding either. The Golden Calf of Bristol is your boy so...


I am not a UF fan at all.. I just watched The Golden Calf of Bristol's entire college career. I saw a special on The Golden Calf of Bristol in his high school year and was eally impressed by him. You could see all his ability and intangibles..

I made mental note to follow his career because I thought he was legit.. and sure enough he was a freak of nature. I followed Cam while at Auburn that full year to see how he would do and it made me sick how that school and Cam were trying to fake having their own The Golden Calf of Bristol.. it was truly bizarre.

Here Cam is mimicking all The Golden Calf of Bristol's mannerisms.. it's difficult to explain but they literally regurgitated things The Golden Calf of Bristol dd and said.. the Auburn media as well.. I've never seen anything like it..

I saw how incredibly talented cam's team at auburn was and how he was being carried too.. complete opposite of The Golden Calf of Bristol at Florida..

I knew how good that Auburn team was because I saw them play Alabama better the year before Cam got there than Florida did that year when The Golden Calf of Bristol was still at Florida..

Another thing people forget is that the NFL forced The Golden Calf of Bristol to change his throwing motion and Joe Montana and many others said this wasn't necessary and that they never should have done it.

This is another reason The Golden Calf of Bristol has struggled passing the ball. And even thenhe has still outperformed cam.. Cam spent his time in college on the bench and in junior college changing his motion..

#148 mav1234

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:16 PM

That is BECAUSE of The Golden Calf of Bristol.. before The Golden Calf of Bristol became the starter they were one of the wost run teams..



They had a 100 yard rusher in every game Orton started but vs Oakland and Tennessee... It helps when you go from just under 24 carries per game (first five games) to just under 38 (last 5 games)...

Because Orton is a dink and dunker like Cam.. this kills your run game. cam;s best throws are his short passes.


...no they aren't. what the fug, you have no clue dude, Cam's best throws are his deep balls. Do you watch our games? No, obviously :) You also seem to think our run game has been "killed," which is funny since our backs are averaging the same YPA as Denver's, the difference is that due to less attempts, our run game has less yards. our run game is not hurting because of "dink and dunk" offense, it's hurting because we aren't using it at all.

#149 mav1234

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:17 PM

Decleater = TRD.

You brought up a good point, this board should make you use a "real" email address to register, not a free email account... that would make bans much more effective.


Uhm, no. TRD is TRD, and TRD has already said he thinks Cam is better than The Golden Calf of Bristol.

#150 CatMan72

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:17 PM

Cam was being carried by Auburn :lol:


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