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Random mocks from around the net


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#1 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:49 AM

I mostly just browse the walterfootball mock draft database, but this one caught my attention. I actually don't like our 1st round pick (Coples at #9) but it's a pretty good looking mock overall. A lot of picks had me nodding my head thinking I could definitely see that team taking that player (Jenkins to the Cowboys in the 1st, Lamar Miller to the Broncos in the 1st, Trent Richardson to the Browns, the Patriots taking Floyd and Still in the 1st, Steelers taking Dontari Poe in the 1st, Texans taking Ta'amu in the 1st to name a few). And he has us taking Minnifield in the 2nd.

http://www.mynfldraf.../NFL-Mock-Draft

#2 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:18 AM

Do we really need another DE?

#3 Lout

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:54 AM

Do we really need another DE?


It's definitely not our top need. Hardy has been improving but when you look at his stats for the year, he probably was not ready to start this season. I think we are OK at the position and there are several other positions that are worse. If they think Coples is a Peppers like talent and can be that kind of difference maker, then I think they take him.. but I don't think that will be the case.

#4 Jesse

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:16 PM

Coples is 2 inches taller and 8 pounds heavier than Hardy. I'd say Hardy's pretty much the same size with 2 more years of experience. Coples would be unnecessary. Anything else on the D would be a smarter pick.

#5 DaCityKats

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:47 PM

not the same player, but I think Coples can play the 3tech successfully and full time.

#6 Jackofalltrades

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 04:49 PM

Steelers need OL still.

I wouldn't be excited about Coples, but I'd trust Rivera's decision. I'd rather have Blackmon, CB or OLB.

#7 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 05:20 PM

Do we really need another DE?


No.

It's definitely not our top need. Hardy has been improving but when you look at his stats for the year, he probably was not ready to start this season. I think we are OK at the position and there are several other positions that are worse. If they think Coples is a Peppers like talent and can be that kind of difference maker, then I think they take him.. but I don't think that will be the case.


If you ONLY go by stats, then ok Hardy is just an average DE. But if you're actually watching the game, he is pressuring the QB on almost every pass play and plays the run a lot better than most give him credit for. QB pressures are almost as good as sacks (lead to INTs/incompletions) and one of those deep statistical analysis (can't remember which one) said Hardy had a very nice rookie year for his playing time. Lot of QB pressures and stuff that don't show up on NFL.com's stat sheet. I'll be interested to see what they say after this year, but I'll bet it's more of the same.

Steelers need OL still.

I wouldn't be excited about Coples, but I'd trust Rivera's decision. I'd rather have Blackmon, CB or OLB.


Ditto on all points. And yea the Steelers still need some OL, but Casey Hampton ain't getting no younger and as far as I know they don't really have a replacement for him yet. Their whole d-line is getting old and worn out, hell their whole defense is getting old and worn out. They're still good, but guys are going to start dropping like flies soon to injury and retirement and they're gonna be screwed without their vaunted defense. Average defense for the Steelers makes for a below average team overall.

#8 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:49 AM

Here's another mock that I thought was well done, and again I don't care for our 1st round pick (Alshon Jeffrey at #7 is a bit high for him in my opinion but all my favorite targets, Blackmon, Claiborne, and Kalil are all gone). In that scenario I'd really hope we could trade down. 3 round mock with good analysis and videos for some of the players.

http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1.asp

#9 Lout

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:10 AM

No.



If you ONLY go by stats, then ok Hardy is just an average DE. But if you're actually watching the game, he is pressuring the QB on almost every pass play and plays the run a lot better than most give him credit for. QB pressures are almost as good as sacks (lead to INTs/incompletions) and one of those deep statistical analysis (can't remember which one) said Hardy had a very nice rookie year for his playing time. Lot of QB pressures and stuff that don't show up on NFL.com's stat sheet. I'll be interested to see what they say after this year, but I'll bet it's more of the same.



Ditto on all points. And yea the Steelers still need some OL, but Casey Hampton ain't getting no younger and as far as I know they don't really have a replacement for him yet. Their whole d-line is getting old and worn out, hell their whole defense is getting old and worn out. They're still good, but guys are going to start dropping like flies soon to injury and retirement and they're gonna be screwed without their vaunted defense. Average defense for the Steelers makes for a below average team overall.


I see Hardy get pushed completely out of the play on run plays quite often. I would say he is below average in playing the run and average in pass rushing in comparison to other starting DE's in the NFL. You don't see Hardy blowing up running plays (ever) like CJ does.
Don't get me wrong, I think Hardy has all the tools to become a good DE for us, and this is a learning year for him, just like several players on our team. But, I do not think Hardy would be a starter on most NFL teams (right now) based on his inconsistency to hold the point of attack on run downs.

#10 Lout

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:11 AM

Steelers need OL still.

I wouldn't be excited about Coples, but I'd trust Rivera's decision. I'd rather have Blackmon, CB or OLB.


Blackmon will be a Top 4 pick, I am 100% sure of that. We have 0% shot at getting a Top 4 pick methinks. Colts will take Luck, then the Vikings, Rams, and Jags could all take Blackmon picks #2-4

Blackmon is pretty much off the table for us because we beat the Bucs.. and will probably beat them again which will take us out of contention for Claiborne as well..

Edited by Lout, 08 December 2011 - 11:15 AM.


#11 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 06:17 PM

I see Hardy get pushed completely out of the play on run plays quite often. I would say he is below average in playing the run and average in pass rushing in comparison to other starting DE's in the NFL. You don't see Hardy blowing up running plays (ever) like CJ does.
Don't get me wrong, I think Hardy has all the tools to become a good DE for us, and this is a learning year for him, just like several players on our team. But, I do not think Hardy would be a starter on most NFL teams (right now) based on his inconsistency to hold the point of attack on run downs.


I went searching for videos or stats, but trying to find info on a DE's run defense isn't easy. Here's what ProFootballFocus said about him in general before the Indy game:

Johnson has been slightly outperformed on the Panthers’ defensive line by Greg Hardy (+11.4). Hardy is our 10th-highest-rated pass rusher among 4-3 defensive ends with three sacks, seven hits and 23 pressures. Outside of those two, however, the Panthers have struggled to find much pass rush

.

And about the Lions game:

While the interior of the defense continues to struggle, the Panthers are finding more and more players on the edge. We all know what Charles Johnson (+2.6) is capable of and now we’re seeing further reason to think Greg Hardy (+1.5) could breakout in similar fashion to Johnson as he builds on a solid rookie year. He wasn’t the only defensive end to shine with Thomas Keiser (+3.6), playing in only the second game of his rookie season, showing that they could have another talent at defensive end on their hands. The three did most of their strong work in run defense, defeating blocks and forcing runs back inside to try to offset the damage done by a poor performance from their interior

.

Vikings game:

Not in Greg Hardy’s house

You’ll occasionally see a pass-rusher who isn’t having a good day back off and start looking for batted passes at the line. They know they’re not getting to the quarterback, so they try and get in the throwing lanes and do damage there. You rarely see a player having the kind of day Greg Hardy (+5.6) had. Hardy got a hit and three more pressures in the game, but also batted down a pair of passes at the line, proving a nuisance in all areas for the Vikings to deal with. Hardy teamed up with Charles Johnson (+4.1) to force pressure around the Vikings offensive tackles on more plays than Christian Ponder would have liked and they were both pretty unfortunate to wind up on the losing side of the game.


Couldn't find anything to help my argument about his run defense, but nothing pointing out that it was lacking either. I still thinking he is at least average when it comes to run defense and above average in pass rushing. And he's only played a year and a half. I think MUCH bigger upgrades can be had at other positions. I'd even rather get Brown from UNC in the 1st than Coples because it'd be a bigger upgrade by far, and I don't believe in spending picks that high in the 1st on a non 3-4 pass rushing LB.

#12 XClown1986

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 06:46 PM

Coples as a full time 3 technique would be interesting. He is definitely strong enough.

#13 Lout

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:01 PM

I went searching for videos or stats, but trying to find info on a DE's run defense isn't easy. Here's what ProFootballFocus said about him in general before the Indy game: .

And about the Lions game: .

Vikings game:

Couldn't find anything to help my argument about his run defense, but nothing pointing out that it was lacking either. I still thinking he is at least average when it comes to run defense and above average in pass rushing. And he's only played a year and a half. I think MUCH bigger upgrades can be had at other positions. I'd even rather get Brown from UNC in the 1st than Coples because it'd be a bigger upgrade by far, and I don't believe in spending picks that high in the 1st on a non 3-4 pass rushing LB.


Interesting find. I suppose I underrated Hardy's pass rush ability. Using the eyeball test, I see Hardy losing contain all the time which is mental aspect of run defense.. he just isn't filling the proper lane a lot of time because he is trying to make a play. This was Riveras only critiscm of Hardy.. he needs to trust the scheme and do his job.. otherwise he gives up big plays at times. And other times he doesn't hold the point of attack which is something else entirely. Either leverage, pad level, or strength.. not sure which.

But after reading this, I'd definitely give him another year before spending a high pick on a DE.

#14 bleys

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 05:45 PM

Hardy is a beast.. we can use some depth, but we have 2 fine starting DE's in our future..

#15 carpanfan96

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:54 AM

Hardy is a beast.. we can use some depth, but we have 2 fine starting DE's in our future..


Yea when rushing the passer, he's always been weak against the run. He's always been poor at setting the edge and gets washed in the run game. He's getting better against the run game though and I'll give him credit for finally buying into playing run defense.


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