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PantherfanB

Cam vs Tim

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You randomly generated wins and losses for the week to try to prove that YPP was better than PPG, which doesn't even address the season long issues and did nothing to help your point.

You then linked the Panthers to show how YPP was better than PPG for us, to which I reminded you of our point differential (which, unsurprisingly, matched up with our overall w/l standing), along with a couple other teams where the YPP is not nearly as accurate a predictor of how they are doing as other measures.

You quoted an article from 2004 that didn't even address PPG and managed to misquote the article and highlight data that actually suggested you were wrong...

You have done a good job of making yourself look a bit silly, but that's it.

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Panthers are 11th with an avg of 24 ppg the number 5 spot is 25 ppg newton has single handedly doubled last years avg of 12ppg he is not struggling or playing like a rookie. He happens to be a rookie with the potential to play much better.

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2003 Carolina Panthers 15.6 OYPP.

2011 Carolina Panthers: 16.6 OYPP

2003 Carolina Panthers turnover per possession: ranked 21st (.152)

2011 Carolina Panthers turnovers per possession: ranked 22nd (.145)

So... the 2003 Panthers OYPP is very similar to this years OYPP and they turned the ball over more often that the 2011 Carolina Panthers.

One went to the Super Bowl, the other is 4-9. Why?

2003 Panthers defensive stats:

Yards per drive: 7th

points allowed per drive: 6th

TDs allowed per drive: 7th

Punts forced per drive: 5th

Takeaways: 21st

Drive success rate (three and outs): 7th

Doesn't get any simpler than that. One played in a Super Bowl and the other is 4-9 and the only major difference is the defense.

Thank you and goodnight.

You figure it out.

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most people who say our offense is decent point to the fact that we are top ten in a whole variety of offensive categories, especially those that are much more "power" offensive measures than YPP.

This year, net ypp is NOT an accurate predictor of number of wins this year. It may have been in the past, it is NOT this year. plain old YPP is still an OK predictor, but both ppg and point differential especially are better this year (and point differential is probably better most years).

Tell me, what is the Panthers' net YPP This year? What about the Packers?

Back it up. Stop just making comments without backing it up without any proof while in the mean time acting any official numbers I show aren't good enough.

Yes ,we are in top 10 in a lot of categories except the one that matters most! Except the one that has the most to say about whether you will end up winning a football game. The one that actually ranks the unit completely by their performance, not partial results separated.

In yards we're 5th.

in points we're 12th.

This measures two sides of your offense, separately, independent of each other.

In efficiency, which matters more than both of those, we're 22nd.

You can win with an efficient offense that's not top 10 in points scored. You can win with an efficient offense that's not top 10 in yards. You obviously CAN'T win with an inefficient offense that's 22nd in the league or lower unless your name is the Pittsburg Steelers and your QB is named Ben Rothlesberger.

The rest of them, including us, are losers.

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WTF? Why are you talking efficiency ? At the end of the day your offense is measured by the points on the board It's that simple. Our problem is special teams and defense. Please find another team to not appreciate

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2003 Carolina Panthers 15.6 OYPP.

2011 Carolina Panthers: 16.6 OYPP

2003 Carolina Panthers turnover per possession: ranked 21st (.152)

2011 Carolina Panthers turnovers per possession: ranked 22nd (.145)

So... the 2003 Panthers OYPP is very similar to this years OYPP and they turned the ball over more often that the 2011 Carolina Panthers.

One went to the Super Bowl, the other is 4-9. Why?

2003 Panthers defensive stats:

Yards per drive: 7th

points allowed per drive: 6th

TDs allowed per drive: 7th

Punts forced per drive: 5th

Takeaways: 21st

Drive success rate (three and outs): 7th

Doesn't get any simpler than that. One played in a Super Bowl and the other is 4-9 and the only major difference is the defense.

Thank you and goodnight.

You figure it out.

Simple. Because as usual you are leaving out the other half of the story when it comes to yards per point. Turnovers. Scoring defense yards per point allowed. Which is also a measurement that is most affected by your own offense's turnovers and where they take place.

Which is why net yards per point is an even better measurement. You are looking at one stat that doesn't tell the whole story and are surprised by it.

Offensive yards per point only tells you how efficient your offense was. It says nothing about your defense. That's yet another reason why it's not a fuging team stat. Offensive yards per point measures how good your offense is in scoring points. It doesn't tell you where your defense had to start defending from or how many boneheaded turnovers it had to deal with.

Carolina's scoring defense yards per point allowed 2003: 8th Carolina 16.3

Carolina's scoring defense yards per point allowed 2011: 30th Carolina 13.4

This number doesn't just measure the number of turnovers, or efficiency, but where they took place. Which is more important.

An offensive turnover in our opponent's red-zone for example, hurts our offense, but can sometimes help our defense. If it happens at their 5 yard line...our opponent needs to travel 95 yards to score. That's actually more convenient for our defense than having to defend from their 20-25 yard line which is league average.

But it does hurt your offense's efficiency.

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You can win with an efficient offense that's not top 10 in points scored. You can win with an efficient offense that's not top 10 in yards. You obviously CAN'T win with an inefficient offense that's 22nd in the league or lower unless your name is the Pittsburg Steelers and your QB is named Ben Rothlesberger.

The rest of them, including us, are losers.

You can also lose with a better "YPP" then the team your playing, so shut the fug up about this already

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lol we're 29th in the league in defensive YPP and it's because our offense "turns it over a lot"?

we do NOT turn the ball over that much - but our defense is so bad we can't afford it at all when we do it. we're like, what, tied for 18th in the league or something? not good, but not terrible either. the NFL average for turnovers is 1.57 per game, we're at 1.61, and now our turnovers are why our defense is 29th?

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You can also lose with a better "YPP" then the team your playing, so shut the fug up about this already

Very rarely. So you STFU.

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Simple. Because as usual you are leaving out the other half of the story when it comes to yards per point. Turnovers. Scoring defense yards per point allowed. Which is also a measurement that is most affected by your own offense's turnovers and where they take place.

Which is why net yards per point is an even better measurement. You are looking at one stat that doesn't tell the whole story and are surprised by it.

We turned the ball over at a higher rate in 2003 :confused:

And you have argued that OYPP is offensive efficiency. Now you are saying it is OYPP and DYPP combined?? So it isn't OYPP? Good then I was right from the beginning.

Your new narrative of "DYPP is also a reflection of our offense" claim is also very amusing because it undermines you entire point from the beginning as well.

Basically you say that if our offense plays poorly the other team's OYPP (or our DYPP) is going to be really, really good.

But in your overzealous attempt to put all things bad on the Panthers offense you not surprisingly failed to realize that the "Panthers offense playing poorly" would likely be interpreted by our opposing fans as "our defense played very well"

Therefore, you have said, "If a defense plays better it would be reflected beneficially in their OYPP" Which is what I have been saying since day one.

In simple terms, if our defense caused our opposing team's offense to "play bad" more often, our OYPP would benefit much like you claim our opposing team's OYPP (or our DYPP) has benefited by our supposed offensive struggles (or opposing team's good defense) . Since that isn't happening our OYPP is being hurt by our defense that can't seem to make other offenses "play poorly". You have made my point!

Thank you and goodnight again.

It is almost too easy.

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Lol, still on my first account...But it doesn't prove poo if you can still lose with better YPP...so you waste your entire life posting about on account after account...YOU CAN STILL LOSE WITH BETTER YPP SO IT DOESN'T PROVE poo FOR WHOS A WINNER OR LOSER....

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