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Deangelo's Contract will be the Worst Thing to Happen to this Offense


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#71 panthers55

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:00 PM

Please continue.....digging a hole about something you are wrong about. You see, just b/c something is considered an option play....doesn't make it the read option. the read option is Cam's bread and butter and what he got Chud to add.

That is not the read option. Please see the links above showing Cam and Stewart running the read option. I already addressed that clip in my prior post.....that is NOT the read option. Williams didn't run the read with Cam. As for your clip, which the play was addressed prior to your post, your first clue should of been he was under center and the read option works out of the spread formation.

Williams took a couple pitches. That is not running the read option w/ Cam.

Stewart ran the read option....there are endless examples showing it and Cam/Stewart piling up the yards.

There are none with Williams running the read option. A couple time he was on the field as Cam/Stewart ran the read option and was there for the option pitch. The read option became a staple of our offense.....the sprinkled in option pitches were not.


Perhaps we need to review the option a bit so we can be on the same page. Here is a primer that is pretty good, Yeah it is wikipedia but the info is pretty good.

http://en.wikipedia..../Option_offense

Here is one from nebraska which runs the option

http://www.omaha.com...IGRED/710159738

And here is 1 from the spread option. Note they mention Malzahn who was Cam's coach at Auuburn:

http://en.wikipedia..../Spread_offense

Finally we use a variation called the pistol spread option

http://pistolspreadoption.com/

As the article mentions what makes the option different from a straight run is that in all options the quarterback reads the defense either presnap or after the ball is hiked and then deals the ball based on how the defense islined up or how they react. So on option play there is a read going on which is the quarterback not the runner. When the runner is lined up inside the quarterback either hand it off inside or keeps it off tackle or around the end. When the runner is outside the quarterback either keeps it inside or pitches it outside based on the defensive end.

As you can see what you are describing are all variation of the pistol spread option. In Deangelo's version he was lined up to the right of the Newton with a Blocker in front and the action went that way. But Deangelo reverrsed fields and Newton pitched him the ball going the opoosite direction.

But you are confused if you think a read option and an option play are different they are not. depending on the alignment the read can be different but the nature of the option which means to have various options based on the defensive read means they were both options play and both reads. The only caveat is where the you have a quarterback draw for example where there is not a read.

#72 CRA

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:45 PM

55 you need to watch more college ball.

The read option is a SPECIFIC type of option play....all option plays are not the read option. What you are trying to do is disect words and claim QBs are making reads on all options...therefore all options are read options. Lame.

This is Cam's read option out of the spread and this is what is being discussed.

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Option_offense

The most popular running play employed in the spread is the read option. This play is also known as the zone-read, QB Choice, or QB Wrap

#73 CRA

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:52 PM

The read option in the spread formation was all Cam and Stewart.

Williams was involved in select option plays but never actually involved in the play action aspect of a read option....

Putting Williams on the field in a pistol formation also doesnt mean he is part of that read option being discussed....he was part of the pitch option aspect. Yes, Cam is making a "read" if he pitches
it but that isn't the read option being discussed.



#74 MaineManPanther

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:54 PM

It was still a read Option, but I understand that it not quite the same as we were discussing


The combination of Stewart having experience from college, and a shortened offseason gave Stewart a jump start. Add to the fact that Stewart plays it well it's not a surprise he gets the plays over Williams. They played the player who would be the most effective at it.

However I don't see how that implys Williams can't do it and if he did wouldn't be good at it.. There is no reason he or Tolbert for that matter can't .

Regardless this passing attack will only improve, and even without the read option and/ or Stewart, we have the RB's and line to posses a good rushing attack. Combined with Chud's pragmatism , I don't see this offense struggling by any means with the loss of one albeit good RB.

#75 panthers55

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:39 PM

55 you need to watch more college ball.

The read option is a SPECIFIC type of option play....all option plays are not the read option. What you are trying to do is disect words and claim QBs are making reads on all options...therefore all options are read options. Lame.

This is Cam's read option out of the spread and this is what is being discussed.

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Option_offense

The most popular running play employed in the spread is the read option. This play is also known as the zone-read, QB Choice, or QB Wrap


What you are showing is not called a read option play specifically that is a triple option formation and the element you are showing is the first option which is the dive play usually to the fullback or a tailback. Note number 30 who is circling around behind the quarterback is the third option which is the pitch. The quarterback is reading the defensive end and the middle linebacker. If the Mike moves up close to the line and looks to be crashing the middle he keeps the ball and watches the defensive end. If the end stays outside to turn everything inside then the quarterback exercises the second option which is to go offtackle. If the end crashes down on the quarterback then he pitches the ball to the outside runner who is in a foot race to the edge

I just showed you several articles and none of them refer to a read option as a separate play, they all refer to reading the option no matter whether it is double option or a triple option, a pistol spread formation, a triple wing option, the wildcat formation or anything else.
What you are calling a read option is a double or triple option and is way oversimplifying the option system and not accouting for formation or various options from each. If you have listened to people calling a particular play a read option they are either oversimplifying it for fans or they are not aware of the variations.

Now maybe in Madden they use the read option play, I don't know.

#76 panthers55

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:48 PM

The read option in the spread formation was all Cam and Stewart.

Williams was involved in select option plays but never actually involved in the play action aspect of a read option....

Putting Williams on the field in a pistol formation also doesnt mean he is part of that read option being discussed....he was part of the pitch option aspect. Yes, Cam is making a "read" if he pitches
it but that isn't the read option being discussed.


We run the pistol spread formation roughly 50% of all plays. When Cam lines up in the shotgun about 4-5 yards behind center with either Stewart or Williams about 3 yards behind them that is the pistol formation. From that we run a series of plays either passing, run action passing, straight running or an option variation. Anytime that Cam starts moving the ball to the right or left, and it isn't a rollout, that is the pistol spread option. He used it with both Williams or Stewart.
Think about it for a minute and consider if we only ran an option play with Stewart and Williams had the majority of rushing plays then we would purposely tipping our hand depending on who was in there. Plus it would very predictable and cut down on our options if we didn't run the same formations for both backs. If you will stop arguing for a minute as if this is contest of knowledge and think about it for a minute you will understand what I am saying. What you are also confusing is that when they ran Stewart inside and Williams mostly outside that that is a different sytem. That is simply 2 variations of the double option. When both Stewart and Williams were in there together, that was a triple option.
As for watching college ball, I have season tickets to ECU and watch all their games. Guess what they run all year long???? Yeah that would be the spread offense. there are several teams they played this year which used spread variations including the pistol spread option.
But I am not going to keep arguing, I showed you what we run and what it is called. If you want to keep saying it is a read option then feel free.

BTW: The running back and the quarterback don't both read the option independently, that would result in them not being on the same page and frequently running into each other or going in different directions. The play is called at the line and the quarterback calls the variation after looking at the defense. The running back runs the play called. Only once he has the ball does he have the option to read the play and take it where he wants. That is a function of zone blocking which is what we use on in the spread formation and his job is to take the ball inside or outside based on where he sees a hole developing or cutting it back if he finds a seam.

#77 MaineManPanther

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:02 PM

I just showed you several articles and none of them refer to a read option as a separate play, they all refer to reading the option no matter whether it is double option or a triple option, a pistol spread formation, a triple wing option, the wildcat formation or anything else.
what you are calling a read option is way oversimplifying the option system and not accouting for formation or various optiond from each. If you have listened to people calling a particular play a read option they are either oversimplifying it for fans or they are not aware of the variations.

Now maybe in Madden they use the read option play, I don't know.


Not an expert, but Per the Wiki page:

A very popular type of double option is the read option. It is typically run out of the shotgun formation. The quarterback reads the defensive end on the side in which the play is designed to take the running back. If the defensive end is playing inside the tackle after the snap of the ball, the quarterback hands the ball off to the running back. If the defensive end is playing outside of the tackle after the snap, the quarterback keeps the ball and runs counter to the blocking scheme



#78 panthers55

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:52 PM

55 you need to watch more college ball.

The read option is a SPECIFIC type of option play....all option plays are not the read option. What you are trying to do is disect words and claim QBs are making reads on all options...therefore all options are read options. Lame.

This is Cam's read option out of the spread and this is what is being discussed.

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Option_offense

The most popular running play employed in the spread is the read option. This play is also known as the zone-read, QB Choice, or QB Wrap


What you are describing is sometimes called a zone read play but that is more specifically a double option play with 1 TE and the other running back moving to the slot as they shifted from a triple option to a double option. Or they use 21 personnel with 2 TEs and 1 running back with double wides. The second tight end lines up in the slot or in the backfield. It can be simplified to call it a play but more specifically you can run several variations particularly a double or triple option using zone blocking depending on whether you use a TE or a running back in the backfield.. Teams may call this option a particular play but that is simply because they are not running the whole package. Zone read refers to reading the actions of the DE and the linebacker in the zone that you are attacking. QB choice refers to handing to the running back or keeping it himself.


The QB wrap is actually not a read play it is a designed misdirection play.

http://www.spreadoff..._spread_offense

#79 panthers55

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:02 PM

Not an expert, but Per the Wiki page:


My point exactly. That is the read option which isn't a particular play. There are several formations and plays which all loosely are called the read option. It can be run as a double option or triple option, it can be run as a power option or a misdirection like in DeAngelo's case where they start one direction to pull the linebackers and end going right and then pitching it back left. All he had to do was beat the linebacker to the corner.

Calling the read option a specific play is like callling a crossing route a specific passing play. A crossing route is usually one route tree which is run within a larger play using multiple receivers.