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Ron Paul furious over indefinite detention act


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#31 Claws

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:39 AM

ah yes, the zero rights argument.

gotchathanks

#32 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:45 AM

Non-issue to American Citizens unless you are a plotting a terrorist campaign that will cause some type of destruction to the United States. I listened to that entire speech and it sounds to me as if they are crafting a bill that modifies the POW standards. Let's get something straight, these people are not American Citizens and therefore are not entitled to recieve any rights....period. They are a threat to everyone's safety. What do you do with them, let them go....good luck with that


A. Just because someone isn't an American citizen, they deserve no rights of any kind? Human, civil, etc.?

B. One problem you kinda looked over, this bill does actually give the power to detain US citizens.

"...authorize the U.S. military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians, including American citizens, anywhere in the world".

"The military would have the authority to imprison persons far from any battlefield, including American citizens and including people picked up in the US."

I'm too lazy to link the articles, but it's the 1st 2 Google hits...yeah, it was that easy to disprove your statements.

#33 Floppin

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:45 AM

Non-issue to American Citizens unless you are a plotting a terrorist campaign that will cause some type of destruction to the United States. I listened to that entire speech and it sounds to me as if they are crafting a bill that modifies the POW standards. Let's get something straight, these people are not American Citizens and therefore are not entitled to recieve any rights....period. They are a threat to everyone's safety. What do you do with them, let them go....good luck with that


Yes yes, people accused of crimes should have no rights, fug having to prove anything. If the military accuses someone, clearly they are guilty, just let them ship off US citizens to an internment camp indefinitely.

#34 Iceberg Slim

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:47 AM

Seems appropriate when the positioning is that for some reason rights should be afforded to POW's... This bill is re-positioning the tenets of the Geneva Convention of 1949 to meet current standards...period....

#35 Iceberg Slim

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:50 AM

A. Just because someone isn't an American citizen, they deserve no rights of any kind? Human, civil, etc.?

B. One problem you kinda looked over, this bill does actually give the power to detain US citizens.

"...authorize the U.S. military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians, including American citizens, anywhere in the world".

"The military would have the authority to imprison persons far from any battlefield, including American citizens and including people picked up in the US."

I'm too lazy to link the articles, but it's the 1st 2 Google hits...yeah, it was that easy to disprove your statements.


And this is different from the Geneva Convention how......

#36 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:52 AM

i'm pissed off because harbor freight doesn't sell nailgun combos

everyone knows a 3-1 nailer is a POS

#37 Claws

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:53 AM

are you fuging serious?

specifically the fuging part about detaining american civilians with no charges being filed. can you defend that?

cmon man, even the fuging libs have abandoned this thread because they god damn know how bad this is.

#38 Floppin

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:54 AM

There is a reason that the military has been forbidden governmental usage on US soil without declaration of Martial Law. This effectively puts the entire US into a perpetual state of Martial Law.

#39 Floppin

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:56 AM

This, in effect, renders Posse Comitatus null and void. Hurray rights, or the lack thereof, amirite?

#40 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:59 AM

And this is different from the Geneva Convention how......


Because this is apples and oranges? The Geneva Convention dealth with treatment of POW's, women, children, etc. on the international level. This is about the ability to without reason, imprision American citizens if someone chooses, without a trial or providing any reason. How is that similar? At all?

#41 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:05 AM

this makes the patriot act look like fluffy pancakes

#42 Iceberg Slim

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:05 AM

REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-

(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.

(2) COVERED PERSONS- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined--

(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and

(B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.

(3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR- For purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a person under the law of war has the meaning given in section 1031©, except that no transfer otherwise described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be made unless consistent with the requirements of section 1033.

(4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States.

(B) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

© Implementation Procedures-

(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall issue, and submit to Congress, procedures for implementing this section.

(2) ELEMENTS- The procedures for implementing this section shall include, but not be limited to, procedures as follows:

(A) Procedures designating the persons authorized to make determinations under subsection (a)(2) and the process by which such determinations are to be made.

(B) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not require the interruption of ongoing surveillance or intelligence gathering with regard to persons not already in the custody or control of the United States.

© Procedures providing that a determination under subsection (a)(2) is not required to be implemented until after the conclusion of an interrogation session which is ongoing at the time the determination is made and does not require the interruption of any such ongoing session.

(D) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not apply when intelligence, law enforcement, or other government officials of the United States are granted access to an individual who remains in the custody of a third country.

(E) Procedures providing that a certification of national security interests under subsection (a)(4) may be granted for the purpose of transferring a covered person from a third country if such a transfer is in the interest of the United States and could not otherwise be accomplished.

(d) Effective Date- This section shall take effect on the date that is 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply with respect to persons described in subsection (a)(2) who are taken into the custody or brought under the control of the United States on or after that effective date.

#43 Iceberg Slim

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:07 AM

SEC. 1035. PROCEDURES FOR PERIODIC DETENTION REVIEW OF INDIVIDUALS DETAINED AT UNITED STATES NAVAL STATION, GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA.

(a) Procedures Required- Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the appropriate committees of Congress a report setting forth procedures for implementing the periodic review process required by Executive Order No. 13567 for individuals detained at United States Naval Station, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40).

(B) Covered Matters- The procedures submitted under subsection (a) shall, at a minimum--

(1) clarify that the purpose of the periodic review process is not to determine the legality of any detainee's law of war detention, but to make discretionary determinations whether or not a detainee represents a continuing threat to the security of the United States;

(2) clarify that the Secretary of Defense is responsible for any final decision to release or transfer an individual detained in military custody at United States Naval Station, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, pursuant to the Executive Order referred to in subsection (a), and that in making such a final decision, the Secretary shall consider the recommendation of a periodic review board or review committee established pursuant to such Executive Order, but shall not be bound by any such recommendation; and

(3) ensure that appropriate consideration is given to factors addressing the need for continued detention of the detainee, including--

(A) the likelihood the detainee will resume terrorist activity if transferred or released;

(B) the likelihood the detainee will reestablish ties with al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners if transferred or released;

© the likelihood of family, tribal, or government rehabilitation or support for the detainee if transferred or released;

(D) the likelihood the detainee may be subject to trial by military commission; and

(E) any law enforcement interest in the detainee.

© Appropriate Committees of Congress Defined- In this section, the term `appropriate committees of Congress' means--

(1) the Committee on Armed Services and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate; and

(2) the Committee on Armed Services and the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives.

#44 Floppin

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:07 AM

Jesus Christ Sagacious Panther, surely your not having difficulty reading this act as well. I've already made one person look retarded with their lack of English comprehension, you don't want to be the second do you?

#45 Iceberg Slim

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:07 AM

SEC. 1036. PROCEDURES FOR STATUS DETERMINATIONS.

(a) In General- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the appropriate committees of Congress a report setting forth the procedures for determining the status of persons detained pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) for purposes of section 1031.

(B) Elements of Procedures- The procedures required by this section shall provide for the following in the case of any unprivileged enemy belligerent who will be held in long-term detention under the law of war pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force:

(1) A military judge shall preside at proceedings for the determination of status of an unprivileged enemy belligerent.

(2) An unprivileged enemy belligerent may, at the election of the belligerent, be represented by military counsel at proceedings for the determination of status of the belligerent.

© Report on Modification of Procedures- The Secretary of Defense shall submit to the appropriate committees of Congress a report on any modification of the procedures submitted under this section. The report on any such modification shall be so submitted not later than 60 days before the date on which such modification goes into effect.

(d) Appropriate Committees of Congress Defined- In this section, the term `appropriate committees of Congress' means--

(1) the Committee on Armed Services and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate; and

(2) the Committee on Armed Services and the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives.


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