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Perspective on our RB Situation

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It would seem that a lot of people have lost sight of what we have in Carolina. I think the best way to look at it is to look through the history books to see how we compare. When you look at it by the numbers, it is nothing less than astounding.

I've compiled the career stats of the top 30 rushing leaders by yardage, tacked on another legend who's career ended prematurely, and then compared our own double trouble to see how they rank.

Career stats come from [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_rushing_yards_leaders[/url]

The rest come from ESPN and NFL.com

First, the list:

[IMG]http://www.twylyght.com/run.gif[/IMG]

I've added Bo Jackson to this list for two reasons. 1) He was considered as a singularly exceptional RB who's career ended before its time, and 2) his history is close enough for some of us to remember just how bad-ass this guy was.

When you look at the lineup, you see all the greats like Tony Dorsett, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Emmitt Smith, and Jim Brown. What helps to make this list more comparable is to look at what their yards per carry was. While there is some debate about it, Jim Brown is widely regarded as the best RB that ever played the game. Some would contend Barry Sanders would fit that slot. Both have yards/carry that exceed 5 for their careers.

When you break down the tiers, from 5+ to 4.6-4.9 to 4.2-4.6 you will notice how the exceptional players compare to the greats. With the exception of a couple of surprises, this list largely holds true to form for bearing out the greats from the legends.

Now, let's sort that list by yards/carry and add in the career stats of our own Double Trouble:

[IMG]http://www.twylyght.com/run2.gif[/IMG]

Notice any patterns?

Now, add a couple more caveats to this list. As of this year, both Stewart and Williams are averaging 5.4 yards/carry. Williams exceeded this in 2008 and it is the highest mark for Stewart's career. Collectively, they've had the best burst in their careers.

Lastly, when looking at the yards/carry for this year's leaders, we have 3 Panthers in the top 10. Cam Newton stands atop this list with 5.6 yards/carry:

[url]http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt[/url]

Given that, why are some of us so quick to break this team up?
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Becuz the Jstew homers think Dwill sucks.

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instead of looking into the past (which has been a running league overall), I think it is more important to look to the future, what the league is becoming and our team will be under Newton.

again comes down to where it is most wise to heavily invest your money/talent. That changes as the league evolves.

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league becoming more of a passing league will force defenses to allocate more of their effort to stopping the passing game. that will only open things up for a run game and the cycle will continue.

teams that are really forward thinking will see it's important to have as balanced an offense as possible, despite being a pass heavy league. that doesn't mean that you run the ball more or as often as you pass it, just that you make sure you have a stout run game able to dominate.

many teams will be able to just get by with average talent at RB. the ones who will be the best overall offenses will be the ones that have the best talent possible at every position.

we have the RBs stacked with talent right now. same with TE. we have a QB that is right on the cusp of being an elite talent in the league (and some would say that right now). we have a pretty solid and respected Oline. now it's a matter of building around those strengths.

we have, as-is, one of the best and most complete offenses in the league. when we run, because of the talent we have on the team at QB and at RB and the scheme we run, we can be better than anyone in the league.

i just don't see any sense in weakening that.

you build around your strengths if you want a dominant team.
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Letting one of the RB go doesn't mean weakening the running game if a cheap, young, and good RB is picked up at the same time. It is possible to pick up a young RB that fits this system that commands less money and the offense both running and passing doesn't miss a beat.

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[quote name='Panther17']Letting one of the RB go doesn't mean weakening the running game if a cheap, young, and good RB is picked up at the same time. It is possible to pick up a young RB that fits this system that commands less money and the offense both running and passing doesn't miss a beat.[/QUOTE]
you replace that guy only as a last resort and with no guarantee that it will work out just as well.

"better the devil you know" and whatnot....

williams contract is pretty much front loaded from what i can tell so his cap impact won't be as big on down the road and we'll have a lot more cap space than people realize once the new tv deals hit because the cap is going to be a whole lot higher.

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[quote name='Panther17']Letting one of the RB go doesn't mean weakening the running game if a cheap, young, and good RB is picked up at the same time. It is possible to pick up a young RB that fits this system that commands less money and the offense both running and passing doesn't miss a beat.[/QUOTE]

Getting a young guy is all well and good, but that's just part of the equation. I think the chemistry and plain old joy Dwill and Stew take from seeing each other do good is something that is rare, in my opinion. It's been a formula that has paid dividends for us so far, probably extended their careers, and given Carolina a powerful option to fall back on if the pass game is not up to snuff. Add Cam to that mix, and you have a nightmare for opposing D's. I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Do what you have to in order to keep Dwill, Stew, and Cam together.
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Is there any link showing Williams cap number each year assuming all performance bonuses are met?

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[quote name='Panther17']Is there any link showing Williams cap number each year assuming all performance bonuses are met?[/QUOTE]not that i've seen. i doubt it's as ugly as people have made it out to be, though.

it usually isn't.

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[quote name='Cape Fear Cat']Getting a young guy is all well and good, but that's just part of the equation. I think the chemistry and plain old joy Dwill and Stew take from seeing each other do good is something that is rare, in my opinion. It's been a formula that has paid dividends for us so far, probably extended their careers, and given Carolina a powerful option to fall back on if the pass game is not up to snuff. Add Cam to that mix, and you have a nightmare for opposing D's. I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Do what you have to in order to keep Dwill, Stew, and Cam together.[/QUOTE]

All parties have to agree and be reasonable with the amount of millions they want. At some point, tough decisions have to be made to better the team in the long run, not individual players.

Pretty soon Cam is going to get a blockbuster deal if he keeps on the path he is on. Big money will be going to Cam, Stew, and DWill unless the front loaded contract talk on here is right. If LaFell or Gettis emerge as top WR, there goes some more money. Quality LT, going to cost some money. Gross isn't getting any younger. Another good DE would help on defense. They're not cheap.

What if Dwill isn't traded this season but we still pick up a cheap young RB that explodes in this offense? Either Dwill or Stew is going to go the following year anyways. HC has already said there is a need for a scat back on this team.

I'm fine either way but I'm aware of the possibility that Double Trouble will end soon.

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Williams and Stewarts talent/production was there even when teams stacked 8-9 in the box when we had Fox as our coach.

That whole the league is trying to stop the pass more is bunk when referring to our backs. We have two special backs each of which IMO could attain a HOF career if they were feature backs.

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Neither stewart or williams is going to be cut or traded.

Be grateful for the talent we have at rb.

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People just want change for the sake of change. We should cut X for Y because...why not? Maybe we draft Barry Sanders 2.0 in the 7th round and look like geniuses MIRITE?!?!?!?!?!?!

I don't understand it myself if there's not an extremely compelling salary cap reason to do so - and none of us are even close to informed enough about how we will handle our cap / spending to have an opinion there.

Build around what this team is very good at and try to improve the areas where we are not on that level yet. Be glad we have what we have - don't be so quick to get rid of an exceptional back because you have a new toy.

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[quote name='rayzor']
you build around your strengths if you want a dominant team.[/QUOTE]

you build your strengths to suit what is most effective.....

The rules are never going to go backwards and encourage more physical football. Look at the best offensive in the league right now. They have scrub running backs.

You can pay a RB like DeAngleo a huge contract to touch the ball 7 times a game or you can pay a WR/DE/TE etc. a big contract to lineup and play every snap. Makes no sense to pay Williams w/ multiple elite runners on your roster when the game is moving in a new direction.

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It's the offseason for us at least. Fans are giving their input and ideas to progress forward. It's what we do. If we all thought the same thing, this off season would be pretty boring.

It's something to think about and discuss. If we draft a 6th or 7th round RB who turns out to be a stud next year, would it be worth it to trade one of the more expensive RB for help else where?

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[quote name='Fox007']Williams and Stewarts talent/production was there even when teams stacked 8-9 in the box when we had Fox as our coach.

That whole the league is trying to stop the pass more is bunk when referring to our backs. We have two special backs each of which [B]IMO could attain a HOF career if they were feature backs[/B].[/QUOTE]

but they aren't feature backs.

RBs are a dime a dozen. People are too in love with our duo. They don't get the workload to justify investing in the best RB duo in the NFL.

I mean, this is an exaggeration of the point, but what good would it do to give John Fox Graham and Gronkowski? I mean, Denver fans could brag about having great recieving options at TE but they wouldn't be used enough to justify the cost.

DeAngelo and Stewart while great....just don't get the reps to justify keeping them together. Money is better invested elsewhere. Goal is to have the best team.....not best backfield.

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Green Bay is an exception. Saints have a very good running game, and New England is not bad either, though they don't have a big name back. Double Trouble will always be there.

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[quote name='CRA']you build your strengths to suit was is most effective.....

The rules are never going to go backwards and encourage more physical football. Look at the best offensive in the league right now. They have scrub running backs.

You can pay a RB like DeAngleo a huge contract to touch the ball 7 times a game or you can pay a WR/DE/TE etc. a big contract to lineup and play every snap. Makes no sense to pay Williams w/ multiple elite runners on your roster when the game is moving in a new direction.[/QUOTE]
if we can move forward and have as effective a passing game as the best teams in the league and we have the elite talent at RB that we have, then we are going to be better.

it's not moving the league backwards. the run game will be an important part of offenses going forward because of the attention that defenses are going to pay on passing games.

it';s just a matter of thinking ahead. not trying to catch up with teams that are the best right now, but anticipating what is going to be down the pike.

defenses are already compensating for a pass heavy league and are making it such that you will HAVE to have a very mobile QB or even a true dual threat QB like cam.

teams are going to be overlooking run games and that is going to work in favor of those teams who didn't essentially abandon the notion that you should have a talented RB corps.

i think the biggest hangup for you, though, is the effect of the contracts going towards our RBs, but i really don't think it's going to have the impact that you think it will long term.

also, i think that this team is more going to be setting the direction for offenses going forward rather than riding the wagon that many teams are.

if we have success with what we are doing, other teams will follow suit.

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[quote name='CRA'] [B]Goal is to have the best team[/B].....not best backfield.[/QUOTE]agreed.

you work to get everything up to that level.

we have an elite RB corps. let's let that be our starting point.

you build around that talent and try to let that be your standard all across the board.

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[quote name='adallastiger']Green Bay is an exception. Saints have a very good running game, and New England is not bad either, though they don't have a big name back. Double Trouble will always be there.[/QUOTE]

Green Bay isn't an exception.....

the teams you mentioned run well without heavily investing into a backfield.

New England can run with Danny Woodhead on you. The game is changing.

the biggest investment on the teams you mentioned is on IR and they won't miss him.

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[quote name='rayzor']agreed.

you work to get everything up to that level.

we have an elite RB corps. let's let that be our starting point.

you build around that talent and try to let that be your standard all across the board.[/QUOTE]

we drafted 2 RBs in the 1st round in 3 years.....we should have an elite RB corp.

that is still the old Fox mindset though. You can't be elite everywhere. That is not where this team needs to be elite going forward.

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it's not a fox mindset.

it's a progressive mindset.

we have an elite RB corps and an elite run game largely because of that. yes, much of it has to do with cam and the scheme, but it's made better because of the talent we have there.

i just don't see any sense in dismantling that necessarily because it's not en vogue at the moment to have a RB corps like that.

you see it as being unnecessary at the moment because of what is happening now. i see it as an element that will help make this team better than any other as we build and improve our passing game. we can do that without taking away from the RB corps that we have and we should do just that.

i don't want us to go back to being a run heavy team. i don't want us to go back to foxball. i want us to have a dominant complete offense and the RB duo of williams and stewart are going to be a vital part of that.

i consider it overkill and i make no apologies. we can do alright with less. i;m not content with us settling for that, though.

we don't have stunt the growth of the passing game or any other part on offense or defense because we have both of those guys here. we can, will, and should build around them and their contracts.
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If you had Jerry Rice on your team with a run-heavy league, would you give him up? Of course not. Why then would you do the same with a Jim Brown or Barry Sanders?

It will become apparent in the playoffs that those teams with balanced offenses will be the matchup nightmares that defenses will struggle to handle.

Pass-heavy offenses with no running game will find capable D-Lines getting to the QB with increased frequency to cut off the passing attack at the head. Run-heavy offenses will find opponents that will stack the box to chop off their attack at the knees.

Balanced offenses will be able to consistently hit the defense where their personnel is most susceptible. RBs may be easier to replace in the league. However, elite and legendary RBs are few and far between as evidenced in the OP.
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Its really sad that some of you would prefer to move on without Stewart. What's wrong with you??

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Does anyone else just roll their eyes when someone puts "perspective" in a thread title?

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