Jump to content





Photo
- - - - -

Charles Johnson, Jon Beason, and Chris Gamble...


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
72 replies to this topic

#61 jtnc

jtnc

    Resident Asshole

  • Joined: 28-November 10
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 13,660
  • Reputation: 3,664
HUDDLER

Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:32 PM

Beason, CJ, Gamble, Anderson and Godfrey are locks.

#62 JawnyBlaze

JawnyBlaze

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 11-May 10
  • posts: 7,600
  • Reputation: 2,030
SUPPORTER

Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:41 PM

Yes. Maybe if we draft a defensive player that has as big an impact on the defense as Cam does on the offense and redefines what it means to be a rookie at his position, then maybe we will see that type improvement with our defense.

Who is that rookie on the defensive side of the ball in this draft that will be available at #8/9??

Some of you guys act like our defense was anything less than terrible this season. If we play nothing but rookie QBs and backups next year maybe we will be fine.

Jon Beason isn't going to magically fix that. Just like Jon Beason didn't keep a pooty Cardinals offense from putting up 21 points on us.


I think the return of a healthy Beason will have almost (but not quite) as big an impact on the defense. And we don't need our defense to go from last to top 5 like our offense did, just need it in the top 15 preferably. I'm certainly not trying to act like our defense was anything less than terrible, I think it was worse than it was ranked. The only worse defense I can think of off the top of my head (that I actually saw play) was TB. But I've never seen a worse offense than ours last year.

#63 NJPanthers12

NJPanthers12

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 18-November 09
  • posts: 1,793
  • Reputation: 480
SUPPORTER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:15 AM

Charles Godfrey, James Anderson, and Greg Hardy are all above average starters in this league. Greg Hardy was in his first year starting with a shortened training camp, no mini camp, and he was hurt in the beginning of it. Give this guy time and he will be a very good starter in this league. Right now this team has a few holes to fill along with depth issues. They possibly need to replace Otah, along with getting help at DT, OLB, S, and CB. I can see us possibly going after Jonathan Martin to replace Otah, but I believe we should wait one more year at OT and give Otah one last chance.

We need to find two starters in the first and second round, it is absolutely imperative to find two starters on defense. Right now we are looking at

DE: Charles Johnson
DT: Ron Edwards
DT:
DE: Greg Hardy

Realistically Ron Edwards is going to be given the starting job. He never played a snap for the Panthers and I still heard his name mentioned multiple times by both Ron Rivera and and Marty Hurney. He was given a 3 year contract and will be relied on to come in and help this defense. We have some depth here, but probably need to find more through free agency. I think we can live with a DE rotation of Johnson/Hardy/Applewhite/Keiser.

I don't believe we are going to use a high draft pick on a DT after getting both Fua and McClain. I would be willing to bet the team is interested in giving both of them a whole offseason to work out and practice with the team. I do not believe we will see many changes at DT.

SLB: James Anderson
MLB: Jon Beason
WLB:

James Anderson is an absolute lock to start next year. I am more confident about Beason after watching Thomas today for the Broncos. He had the same injury and has looked great in the Bronco games I caught this year. I am willing to move on from Davis and save the cap room. I see us getting our starting linebacker in the second round.

CB: Chris Gamble
SS: Charles Godfrey
FS:
CB:

Chris Gamble is a lock down corner and in this system I have as much faith in him as I ever have. Charles Godfrey is also a much better fit at SS than he was at FS. He is definitely under appreciated on this board. I am praying for Claiborne to drop, but I think our next CB will be picked in the first round. I believe Martin will be give opportunity to battle a free agent in training camp.

That leaves the following

DE: Johnson
DT: Edwards
DT: McClain
DE: Hardy

SLB: Anderson
MLB: Bason
WLB: 2nd Round Pick

CB: Chris Gamble
SS: Charles Godfrey
FS: Martin or a Reggie Nelson type player
CB: Dre Kirkpatrick or Janoris Jenkins

Captain Munnerlyn in the slot.

#64 koolkatluke

koolkatluke

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 11-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 7,847
  • Reputation: 474
HUDDLER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:57 AM

i definitely add anderson and maybe munnerlyn. i thought he played very well this year at times.



Capt showed he was no better then a nickle back.

#65 koolkatluke

koolkatluke

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 11-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 7,847
  • Reputation: 474
HUDDLER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 01:03 AM

Charles Godfrey, James Anderson, and Greg Hardy are all above average starters in this league. Greg Hardy was in his first year starting with a shortened training camp, no mini camp, and he was hurt in the beginning of it. Give this guy time and he will be a very good starter in this league. Right now this team has a few holes to fill along with depth issues. They possibly need to replace Otah, along with getting help at DT, OLB, S, and CB. I can see us possibly going after Jonathan Martin to replace Otah, but I believe we should wait one more year at OT and give Otah one last chance.

We need to find two starters in the first and second round, it is absolutely imperative to find two starters on defense. Right now we are looking at

DE: Charles Johnson
DT: Ron Edwards
DT:
DE: Greg Hardy

Realistically Ron Edwards is going to be given the starting job. He never played a snap for the Panthers and I still heard his name mentioned multiple times by both Ron Rivera and and Marty Hurney. He was given a 3 year contract and will be relied on to come in and help this defense. We have some depth here, but probably need to find more through free agency. I think we can live with a DE rotation of Johnson/Hardy/Applewhite/Keiser.

I don't believe we are going to use a high draft pick on a DT after getting both Fua and McClain. I would be willing to bet the team is interested in giving both of them a whole offseason to work out and practice with the team. I do not believe we will see many changes at DT.

SLB: James Anderson
MLB: Jon Beason
WLB:

James Anderson is an absolute lock to start next year. I am more confident about Beason after watching Thomas today for the Broncos. He had the same injury and has looked great in the Bronco games I caught this year. I am willing to move on from Davis and save the cap room. I see us getting our starting linebacker in the second round.

CB: Chris Gamble
SS: Charles Godfrey
FS:
CB:

Chris Gamble is a lock down corner and in this system I have as much faith in him as I ever have. Charles Godfrey is also a much better fit at SS than he was at FS. He is definitely under appreciated on this board. I am praying for Claiborne to drop, but I think our next CB will be picked in the first round. I believe Martin will be give opportunity to battle a free agent in training camp.

That leaves the following

DE: Johnson
DT: Edwards
DT: McClain
DE: Hardy

SLB: Anderson
MLB: Bason
WLB: 2nd Round Pick

CB: Chris Gamble
SS: Charles Godfrey
FS: Martin or a Reggie Nelson type player
CB: Dre Kirkpatrick or Janoris Jenkins

Captain Munnerlyn in the slot Or Brandon Hogan



I agree with most of your post with maybe a few changes. TD will get a chance to battle in TC for the WLB and a player will be signed for the Dline.

#66 JawnyBlaze

JawnyBlaze

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 11-May 10
  • posts: 7,600
  • Reputation: 2,030
SUPPORTER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:15 AM

i definitely add anderson and maybe munnerlyn. i thought he played very well this year at times.


Munnerlyn is a lock for nothing but ST. The only game that he wasn't by far the worst CB on the field was the Minnesota one and only because of the forced fumble. It certainly wasn't due to coverage skills.

#67 pantherclaw

pantherclaw

    Wise Ass

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 7,355
  • Reputation: 1,124
HUDDLER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 04:18 AM

By the numbers - Greg Hardy vs Charles Johnson through two season:

Charles Johnsons first two years as a contributor ( did very little as a rookie ):

50 tackles
37 solo tackles
10 sacks
3 FF
1 recovery
10 passes defensed
0 points scored

Hardy in two years as a fifth round pick:

80 tackles
62 solo
7 sacks
3 forced fumbles
0 recoveries
12 passes defensed ( 11 his second year )
1 kick blocked
1 Safety
2 points scored.

So why does Johnson get a pass where Hardy doesn't despite Hardy coming off looking much more versatile.

Thing is, I don't see a viable option in free agency or the draft that can come in right away and be more productive than Hardy in this defense. So let the kid play and continue to develop. If Hardy, who all around through two years is ahead of the curve that Johnson was, continues his trend, he will be looking real good next season.

New England and Philly were the only teams in the NFL last season who had two players with over 10 sacks each. Along with the Giants ( who have the best pass rushing line in all of football ) they were the only three teams who had over 9 on two players that were DEs in the entire NFL. Pitt had 3 linebackers go over 9 and Denver had 2 linebackers. The next best for a pair of DEs were the Colts, who have what is considered two elite DE rushers, and both were around 8. I think you guys might have your expectations set too highly for how much production a team should get out of their ends.

Hardy and Johnson are awesome pieces as a whole, it is the interior that needs improving. Get one above average rusher on the interior and you will see Hardy sit around 7-8 sacks and Johnson go back over 10.


Those numbers aren't fair because Hardy has started most of his career while Johnson came off the bench. However Hardy is fine. They both look beastly to me.

hardy hasn't started most of his career.

He was nothing but a rotational guy his rookie season, and for good reason.
His last season, while he did start opposite of johnson, hardy was the first off the field in the rotation....with a heavy rotation.

Most people around here won't admit it, but they were calling for johnson to be cut until peppers was gone.

Hardy is a good, talented player...he needs competition, and to continue to get better.

A solid big tackle will also go a long ways towards our defensive ends playing better.

#68 pantherclaw

pantherclaw

    Wise Ass

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 7,355
  • Reputation: 1,124
HUDDLER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 04:29 AM

Shocked nobody has mentioned anderson was literally playing every linebacker position on the field, including MLB.

He is more than average at linebacker. Get him back at his best position, and all this bullshit about him being out of position goes away.

#69 Cyberjag

Cyberjag

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 3,867
  • Reputation: 664
HUDDLER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 07:41 AM

The big picture IMO is that is these guys are so good how come we are terrible on defense?? Great you have 145 tackles. Yet every team runs the ball effectively to your side because the DT can't get penetration and the DE is a non-factor in the run game and you also miss a ton of tackles and your safety help is a worse tackler than Deion Sanders.

It isn't surprising that he has 145 tackles.


It's not that these guys are so good, or so bad, it's that they didn't play well as a unit.

Charles Godfrey, James Anderson, and Greg Hardy.....

I agree with most of this post. I won't be surprised if Martin is back as a starter, but I will be surprised if he's back and doesn't improve a lot. He's got a lot of physical talent, but looked out of position so often that everyone just assumes he's a bad player. Granted, a characteristic of bad players is being out of position, but that can be corrected.

Here are a couple of questions that I'm interested in hearing answers for.

If Chris Harris was in the secondary providing some veteran leadership, would Sherrod Martin look better? I'm not suggesting we sign Harris, of course, just curious if it would make a positive impact on Martin's play. If not, how would you explain John Fox's success when he routinely played veterans over more physically talented rookies?

Rivera started Fua and McLain. Did he choose them based on what they showed in practice? If so, doesn't that suggest that in the eyes of the coaching staff they have the most physical talent among the DTs? Later in the year we were starting a couple of JAGs, and they looked better than the two rookies. Was that because you feel they were more talented, or more experienced? And if it was the latter, don't you think that with Edwards in the rotation that the DTs will look a lot better as a unit in 2012?

In 2010, the Houston Texans were one of the worst defenses in the league, ranked 30th in game stats. In 2011, the Texans were second. Aside from a couple of rookies they took in the first two rounds (and one is starting in place of all-pro Mario Williams, who's on IR), they have the same basic personnel that they did in 2010.

Jacksonville went from 28th to 6th, and didn't do a lot, personnel wise, to get there (other than adding Buffalo Bill MLB Paul Posluszny in the offseason). Seattle went from 27th to 9th. These movements happen, and it's usually not about getting the best Free Agents and top draft picks (right Philly?). In most cases, it's about players buying into the scheme and finding that last piece of the puzzle, personnel wise.

I think if we get a good CB in the draft, and if McDermott is as good a DC as a lot of people around here think, then after a full training camp we should be significantly better on defense. Not just a little bit, but significantly. And if we can get to the middle tier of defenses, then our top tier offense should be good for a winning record and a trip to the playoffs.

Like most NFL rosters, we have a lot of talented guys, and a few potential stars. Those stars (Beason, Gamble, Johnson...) are probably the only guys on the roster who are safe by reputation, but the majority of our 2011 starters are going to be safe because of talent. We've got the personnel, they just need to get cohesive and build each other up, rather than expose each others' flaws.

#70 OneBadassCat

OneBadassCat

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 5,082
  • Reputation: 0
HUDDLER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 08:38 AM

James Anderson is a hell of a LB and has been one of our most healthy players on defense the past 4-5 years. We would be absolutely stupid to let him go or try to replace him.

I think Sherrod Martin can be salvaged, but it is the Panthers responsibility to upgrade the position if they need to. I think Martin could probably play some CB. But bottom line we need the FS to be a ball hawk in this defense.

#71 carolinarolls

carolinarolls

    Mel's brother Del

  • Joined: 03-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 5,455
  • Reputation: 451
HUDDLER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:04 AM

no job is safe in the NFL

nor should it ever be

#72 Varking

Varking

    Enigma

  • Joined: 24-April 10
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 608
  • Reputation: 56
HUDDLER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:15 AM

Do the person who said the Jaguars didn't do much other than add Puz... That is clearly wrong.

We added two starting linebackers in Puz and Clint Sessions through free agency. We added a starting safety in Landry. Ashton Youboty was starting at CB for us at seasons end. We added Matt Roth who became our starting DE. We traded for Drew Coleman who was starting for us until injury. So that would be both safeties on the field, one corner, two linebackers, and 1 defensive end.

#73 teeray

teeray

    THE SWAGNIFICENT

  • Joined: 10-January 11
  • posts: 17,691
  • Reputation: 9,517
SUPPORTER

Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:44 PM

Do the person who said the Jaguars didn't do much other than add Puz... That is clearly wrong.

We added two starting linebackers in Puz and Clint Sessions through free agency. We added a starting safety in Landry. Ashton Youboty was starting at CB for us at seasons end. We added Matt Roth who became our starting DE. We traded for Drew Coleman who was starting for us until injury. So that would be both safeties on the field, one corner, two linebackers, and 1 defensive end.


That can't be right. Everyone tells me you can't have that much turnover in one offseason.

Ironically that is exactly what I think we need. 2 safeties, 2 linebackers, 1 CB, and a DE.

DT would be nice also but I am holding out hope for Edwards being the cog and Fua or McClain developing.

Edited by teeray, 09 January 2012 - 02:46 PM.