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#1 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:25 PM

I've never really been an Obama fan... from day one he's seemed like a typical politician, over hyped, condescending, and a bit phony... ok, a lot phony. I'm a pretty open minded guy however, and I don't think he's done nearly as bad of a job as most of his critics claim... he's been a lot tougher in utilizing the military than I thought he would be. His assassination of Bin Laden and the rescue of those kidnapped people are good examples of this... and in a lot of ways, he pretty much continued with that debacle in the middle east that Bush started.

I also don't think he's been the savior that his pundits claim he is either, and all the race baiting, "if you criticize him you're racist" crap gets real old... but in all honesty no older than the "he's a muslim, he's not a real american" stuff that amazingly I still hear from people that I know that I swear I would've thought would know better...

As far as other issues, the president always gets more credit than he's due for good things and more blame than he's due for bad things... it's generally the congress that screws everything up.

So.... Obama supporters and Obama detractors... consider me on the fence. The republican candidates don't inspire any confidence at all... no independent candidate will do anything as usual...

Why should I/should I not vote for the incumbent President? I don't want some BS answers just cause you *think* he is/is not the right guy for the job... give me something concrete.

#2 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:34 PM

you should vote for obama because romney is an even bigger tool

#3 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:35 PM

you should vote for obama because romney is an even bigger tool


Well, in general the presidential vote has been between "Dickhead A" and "Dickhead B" so what else you got?

#4 stirs

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

Besides the good and bad things attributed to a President, leadership is key in moving forward. This is where I think is biggest shortcomings lie. His background or lack thereof left him woefully inadequate to bring together competing factions, if he even had the desire. I feel like division works in his favor so he might not even be interested in leading.

This is the biggest area of concern for me.

#5 Panthro

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:40 PM

What is more important to you...social issues or the economy. Me? Social issues. Money can always be made.

#6 venom

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:44 PM

You shouldnt vote for Obama because he represents the corrupt and destructive status-quo...but then again, so do all the republican candidates with the exception of Paul. So it basically comes down to if youre going to vote for Paul or not if he even makes it that far, which at this point seems more plausible if he decides to run under a 3rd party. If Paul is no longer a factor, then no matter who you vote for youre going to get the same thing...at that point i personally just wouldnt vote at all.

Edited by venom, 30 January 2012 - 08:46 PM.


#7 venom

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:46 PM

What is more important to you...social issues or the economy. Me? Social issues. Money can always be made.


Social issues? Like NDAA? Yea thats some real liberating stuff right there haha.

#8 Panthro

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:50 PM

Social issues? Like NDAA? Yea thats some real liberating stuff right there haha.

NDAA = a vote for Obama


Comet Elin = a vote for Ron Paul

#9 venom

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:54 PM

NDAA = a vote for Obama


Comet Elin = a vote for Ron Paul


You think NDAA is a good thing? And i don't understand the comet elenin point youre trying to make...

#10 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:57 PM

I've never really been an Obama fan... from day one he's seemed like a typical politician, over hyped, condescending, and a bit phony... ok, a lot phony. I'm a pretty open minded guy however, and I don't think he's done nearly as bad of a job as most of his critics claim... he's been a lot tougher in utilizing the military than I thought he would be. His assassination of Bin Laden and the rescue of those kidnapped people are good examples of this... and in a lot of ways, he pretty much continued with that debacle in the middle east that Bush started.

I also don't think he's been the savior that his pundits claim he is either, and all the race baiting, "if you criticize him you're racist" crap gets real old... but in all honesty no older than the "he's a muslim, he's not a real american" stuff that amazingly I still hear from people that I know that I swear I would've thought would know better...

As far as other issues, the president always gets more credit than he's due for good things and more blame than he's due for bad things... it's generally the congress that screws everything up.

So.... Obama supporters and Obama detractors... consider me on the fence. The republican candidates don't inspire any confidence at all... no independent candidate will do anything as usual...

Why should I/should I not vote for the incumbent President? I don't want some BS answers just cause you *think* he is/is not the right guy for the job... give me something concrete.


Fwiw, I don't think Obama has been all that bad. I do think people expect to much from presidents, and those saying he would bring us together were clueless about our political system. And political positions/philosophy don't mean as much to me as they do to some. I generally would like to see less government in our lives, but not the the extent the Paul supporters (or even the Gingrich supporters) want. Most important to me is that the government spend what it takes in, whether thats high or low. High spending and high taxes are not good, but high spending and low taxes is even worse.


The democrats might get (barely) control of the house again, but republicans will regain control of the Senate and will get the House back in two years. And Obama will see more years of obstructionism from republicans. I doubt he accomplishes anything. He will have two things as his legacy; getting Osama and the health care program (and it will take a while to see if thats a good thing or a bad thing). I think Romney would be a more effective leader who could actually coax something out of congress. He was a effective governor in a blue state.

Edited by Davidson Deac II, 30 January 2012 - 09:09 PM.


#11 pstall

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:58 PM

there are people posting photos of the benefits of Obamacare and the taxes that are to fund that plan, umm, haven't been applied yet.

He is a classic politican. Goes after low lying fruit and has rabbit ears.

I wish he was more innovative like Clinton.

Personally I don't think he has really cut a dif path than most pres but it doesn't matter.

#12 LongTriad

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:02 PM

Flip a coin. Sorry to say, there is no relief in sight.

#13 beach

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:10 PM

The only major "social" issue that matters to me is abortion (which I'm surprisingly against)

BUT! Most social issues overall should be as m.i.a. as possible in federal policy like marriage policy

Concerning Obama, he's a guy that made people forget in 2008 that every politician in the general election will end up running towards the populist "bring America together" message.

My beef with him is that he put his own policy ambitions ahead of creating a true plan for the economy. I didn't like most aspects of the stimulus but something had to be done to avert major disaster.

The problem though is my biggest issues such as education reform and restructuring our energy sector are more on the right side of things. I really disagree with how he tried to prop up the renewable energy guys. We should create efficiency-based incentives before making hopeful investments during these type of times. You can't just prop up the solar industry with a gov't paycheck but you can't at the same time just completely deregulate the market given how monopolized it is. There's a fine line to walk on in this regard and both sides don't get it imo.

Healthcare wise, I would actually support some type of optional base insurance policy for those who meet certain requirements and can pass tests. This would only happen once a budget plan is made first and foremost.

That's what I want the next President to lead on. Going in there and not doing anything until a formal budget plan is agreed upon in the legislative side of things which he is also involved with (and not some flimsy watered down version). I don't agree with the Ryan plan fully but that would be something to work off of.

Going towards the other side again: I think that over deregulation causes big problems in the short term and that's why it should be a multi-step 4+ year process. Like I said though, continuing to throw out investments and creating environmental-based regulations stresses the marketplace no matter the sector.

We need a guy who can walk the line between these two sides and the chameleon-like Romney could be able to do this imho way better than Obama.

*edit:

and I actually think he's been quite good on foreign policy. Has taken care of many terrorists without getting a drumbeat going for a major war. I'm more scared about what the Republicans may say/do to make Iran jump in defense against a ship or fleet out there. We need to be very very careful about the middle east overall. First and foremost: put the lingering Cold War hangover to rest and develop a legitimate relationship with Russia who is on the fence with Iran themselves.

Edited by Beach, 30 January 2012 - 09:14 PM.


#14 cookinwithgas

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:11 PM

Hes not a savior, he's a politician. The only people calling him a savior are the people that do it to mock him.

He spent his political capital on the one issue he felt most strongly about, health care reform, that every president has tried and failed to do anything with for a hundred years.

He has shown a very balanced (too balanced IMHO) view on foreign policy in regards to Iraq and Afghanistan. He did what needed to be done to save the economy (which Bush did as well) and is taking a lot of heat for it by people that seem to believe that the crisis was fake or overblown, a group which I am not in.

Romney would be almost identical to Obama in about 90 percent of issues if elected, but would have to assemble a new team of advisors that may or may not be as good as what we have - Obamas ability to find people that can do the job at hand and delegate to them is an overlooked strength.

His weaknesses are that he is not very good at communication of issues to the American people, and his policies are setup for long term results which leave him vulnerable to attack. He has bent over too much to the Republicans which have made a career or making him Satan more than Clinton could have thought possible - the Republicans were always saying the same things about Clinton as they do about Obama, but time has shown that Clinton ran the country pretty well and is looked upon favorably by a majority of Americans despite his awful personal decision making.

The Presidents main job is C in C of the military and you would be hard pressed to come up with any big mistakes he's made in that arena, whether through bad luck or poor judgment. Look up the conservatives wildly divergent opinions on his handling of Libya for an example of what he's up against and you can see that their arguments are based only on trying to convince people that whatever he did, the opposite should have been done with the results deemed immaterial.

Our relations are getting better with Russia and we are able to coalesce world opinion against Iran. We are working harder than ever to try and get China to play fairer in the world market.

Oh and he orders our soldiers and sailors to shoot pirates when they start acting badly, which is always pretty cool.

#15 Happy Panther

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:19 PM

Clinton was a great president and Obama could have been the greater Clinton if we were in better economic times. Maybe.

Obama has done a fine job of being a pleasant president. Like Reagan and Clinton. A good communicator. It's important. I think Obama has been planning for 8 years all along.

He has failed at being the president he thought he would be. Closing Gitmo. Healthcare reform is a pipe dream.

I guess he has done OK at getting out of Iraq.

I want a president who will balance the budget, stop warmongering so much, shrink the federal government and stay out of my bedroom when I marry my boyfriend while smoking pot*

I am voting for Gary Johnson. If I had to pick between Romney and Obama I would pick Obama because he is less dangerous for this country.





















*no homo


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