139 replies to this topic

[panther4life]

The Lions arguably have the best trio of DT'S in the leauge right? Suh,Corey Williams,Nick Fairley makes for a pretty legit 3 man rotation at DT. Many of you cite pressure up the middle will help us in our pass defense.

Well Drew Brees had his best game of the season against the Lions and whipped their ass. The Falcons also beat the Lions too. Those 2 teams accounted 40% of our losses on the season.

"Yea but the rookies Fua and Mcclain sucked against the run"...not so fast. over 12 games(they were put on i.r. after that) they allowed a whopping 3 rushing TD'S up the middle. Biggest one was a 9 yard run by Adrian Peterson.

For comparison Rushing TD'S to the left occured 7 times(over the same time period) with 2 of them going for 19 yards and another for 17 yards. (Hardy and Munnerlyn played on that side of the field). Runs to Charles Johnsons side with Gamble in run support only happened twice in the same time span.

In our worst defensive perfromance of the year we gave up 49 points. 5 Touchdowns were thrown by Stafford. Intersting fact, none went to Calvin Johnson who was matched up against Gamble. In the only other game where we gave up 40 plus points (last game of year against the bounty hunters) the rookie DT's were on I.R.

What about pressure on the QB? Well DT's rarely rack up sacks but their job is to free up their supporting cast to do so. Last year as a team we had 31 sacks, which frankly sucks. CJ our leader got 8.5 of his 9 in the 12 games our Rookie DT'S played in. Outside of him everyone they sucked bad.

Hardy was 2nd with 4 and he played more snaps than anyone! Keiser only played in 8 games and even less than half the snaps as Hardy also accumulated 4 sacks. Nobody else had more than 2.5 sacks.

Guess what 4-3 teams tied for the leauge in sacks...Vikings and Patriots.
The Vikings starting Ends (Allen and Robinson) combined for 30. The Eagles starting Ends(Babin and Cole accounted for 29).

An argument can be made that much of the eagles sacks were coverage sacks thanks to their prolific secondary.

The Vikings had one thing in common with us. They too had a terrible # 2 corner (Cedric Griffin) and even with 2 great Ends and a top notch DT in Kevin Williams they could not hide his suckage. So please spare me the argument that getting an improvement at DT will make it okay or lessen the damage if Munnerlyn or a if 4th round or later CB starts opposite him. (remember we currently have no 3rd). Gamble proved good corners don't even require the help,instead they give the pass rushers more time.

So theres my argument that DT is not a draft need this year, rather a luxury we can't afford.

http://sports.yahoo....ms/car/schedule,
click on the score of each game, and look at drive summary to see the directional td runs. for diehards, click on play by play for every directional run.(Hardy spare your feelings and don't do it).

http://www.profootba...e-2011-numbers/
For the CB stats

For the other stats, NFL.COM will provide you with eveything you need.

TL;DR VERSION. Stats prove Munnerlyn and then Hardy were the biggest liabilities on the Defense last year not the Rookie DT'S.

Edited by panther4life, 03 March 2012 - 11:51 PM.

[KillerKat]

how many yards up the middle did the rookies give up?

[mick eye]

TL;DR VERSION. Stats prove Munnerlyn and then Hardy were the biggest liabilities on the Defense last year not the Rookie DT'S.

I agree whole heartedly. That is why i want a DE and CB with the first two picks. Love both Capt. and Greg. They have played very well for what and who they are. They are also upgradable. Hardy should be a pass rush specialist brought in on passing downs and Capt should be covering the slot or the 4th WR. Sorry its just the way i see it.

[Ivan The Awesome]

Brees went to Graham all day... lolwut?

[JawnyBlaze]

I still want a DT because cherry picked stats aren't enough to sway me.

[Kevin Greene]

Again I ask, who are the starting DTs for the Super Bowl Champion NY Giants?

[jtnc]

I agree Hardy is meh, but to say Keiser performed well than him is a bit much.

Coverage sack:
http://www.nfl.com/v...sack-12-yd-loss


Pressure by Johnson that led to Keiser sack

http://www.nfl.com/v...-sack-5-yd-loss

[JawnyBlaze]

Chris Canty and Linvall Joseph...not a difficult question considering Canty is quite good and most would know his name and Joseph is from ECU...

[jtnc]

Again I ask, who are the starting DTs for the Super Bowl Champion NY Giants?

Chris Canty(who had four sacks) and that's all I know.

[JawnyBlaze]

Yea, Keiser's performance this year was overexaggerated. He played hard, but his sacks came from the QB being flushed in his direction more often than him actually proving the pressure. No way Keiser is ever a starter in a 4-3.

[panther4life]

how many yards up the middle did the rookies give up?

Too labor intensive to look that up(you can do it if you want, go to the yahoo play by play for the first 12 games) but heres a link http://www.carolinah...un-defense.html to a thread where a DT supporter posted that clearly shows that the ypc to Hardys'/Anderson/Munnerlyn's side was 24.5%( worse than runs up the middle where you did not have Beason or Edwards. The league as a whole runs more up the significantly more up the middle(which makes the td's to Hardy's side even worse), therefore making the specific amount of yards an unfair judgement anyway. fwiw the Saints only run up the middle on 38% of their runs and the Falcons are at the league average of 50%.

[panther4life]

I still want a DT because cherry picked stats aren't enough to sway me.

cherry pick your own then and prove my point wrong.

[Fiz]

This is a hideously poor argument constructed around randomly cherry picked statistics that works from an assumption.

I just don't know if I want to take the four minutes or so it would require to completely disassemble that abortion of an OP, especially considering you wouldn't respond to me afterwards.

You'd just meander over to the huddle and wait for this little bucket of green apple splatters to drop off the first page.

[BeasonBeastingBacks]

Becuase of Brockers beard....

[carpanfan96]

With the Rookies and the Backup's as the major starters, the team gave up over 5 yards per carry on mid-G runs. So both sets were bad and gave up lots of yards on average, However the weakest unit of the team's defense on just big plays "Runs over 10 yards" was against Hardy's poor containment abilities.