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America tortures people...


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#16 Panthro

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:44 AM

Marginalize it and see what happens

#17 Murph

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:46 AM

Every day, child rapists/murderers (who are considered the lowest of the scum bags in prison) are abused (or worse) by fellow prisoners. By the strict definition of our laws and policies on human rights, letting that occur is an insane travesity that should be dealt with and those guards who turn a blind eye should be punished. However 99% of us shrug our shoulders.

When people can convince me that those sacks of poo really do deserve sympathy and justice, I'll start showing the same to those 12-14 prisoners down there in Cuba who had those tactics performed on them. Until then, I'll keep them lumped in the same group of sacks of poo.

#18 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:49 AM

Al-Qaeda beheads people. The sound of it just makes you want to understand them, doesn't it?

#19 Fiz

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:51 AM

So does Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran, Israel, Africa, S. America, etc etc etc etc etc etc

European countries may not do it right now, but they were the ones who perfected it.

War is a bitch. If you can't do what it takes to win, you loseQ.


lol

yeah, so did medieval europe, a bunch of failed states, military juntas, and people we claim are the bad guys

SO WHAT

#20 Panthro

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:52 AM

Every day, child rapists/murderers (who are considered the lowest of the scum bags in prison) are abused (or worse) by fellow prisoners. By the strict definition of our laws and policies on human rights, letting that occur is an insane travesity that should be dealt with and those guards who turn a blind eye should be punished. However 99% of us shrug our shoulders.

When people can convince me that those sacks of poo really do deserve sympathy and justice, I'll start showing the same to those 12-14 prisoners down there in Cuba who had those tactics performed on them. Until then, I'll keep them lumped in the same group of sacks of poo.


And what would Jesus say about them? ;)

#21 cookinwithgas

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:56 AM

You are confusing the activities of prisoners with those of governments. If we, as a nation, did not see ourselves as having the "moral high ground" and desiring to show the world we have it all figured out compared to other types of governments, this would be less of a big deal.

But we choose to want to elevate ourselves above the types of places that think this stuff is OK. In fact, all the right wingers try to tell us that it is because we are a great, "free" country that we were attacked in the first place.

And it's not just the torture that is an issue - it's the fact that, in order to do it, we have to have bases on foreign soil, or take prisoners away to other, less morally clear nations, to do this stuff for the sole purpose of CYA. The previous administration wanted it both ways - they wanted to avoid the world condemnation they knew was coming, but still wanted to have free reign to do whatever they thought necessary to these guys.

It's cowardly and beneath what we all want America to be.

I don't care about sympathy and justice for these guys at all. I care about us being honest with ourselves about who and what we are, and what we want to be.

#22 g5jamz

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:58 AM

I swear we've raised an entire generation of Neville Chamberlain(s).

No one is for the outright torture of people...the fact is that torture by US definition is VERY limited. Bush didn't simply pull an FDR and imprison an entire race post-9/11. Nor did he start up nail removal rooms in Gitmo.

Tempest in a teapot and one of the last remaining holdouts of Bush-bashing...all thanks to Obama's redacted releases.

#23 SCP

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:05 AM

The only enhanced interrogation tactic that I was against in Cuba was the loud playing of Barry Manilow music as punishment.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, should be forced to listen to Manilow at high decibels for hours upon hours.

#24 cookinwithgas

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:09 AM

Been driving my g/fs Jeep this week and it has a cassette player. Have not had one in years - I put in a Maxell tape labeled as a band I liked back in the day and for some reason the Carpenters were on it instead.

#25 Fiz

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:13 AM

I swear we've raised an entire generation of Neville Chamberlain(s).


elaborate on what you think chamberlain did at munich this will be very fun

#26 cookinwithgas

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:17 AM

I heard he blew Hitler, Eva was soooooo jealous

#27 SCP

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:17 AM

It's cowardly and beneath what we all want America to be.


I think there is a fundamental difference in what we want America to be. The Left wants to turn the other cheek and pretend people don't hate us so they can build this euphoric wonderland where people don't have to work and will depend on the government. The right sees what threatens us and wants to protect our freedoms so people can work their asses off and be as successful as possible with little government involvement (Of course, Bush grew government but I never said he was a fiscal conservative).

No matter how nice The Barry is, no matter how many of the enemies hands he shakes, no matter how many world leaders he apologizes to and beckons pardon from, people will still hate America and we will remain threatened by our enemies.

#28 Fiz

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:18 AM

I heard he blew Hitler, Eva was soooooo jealous


republican-history-book.txt

#29 Murph

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:22 AM

.

It's cowardly and beneath what we all want America to be.

I don't care about sympathy and justice for these guys at all. I care about us being honest with ourselves about who and what we are, and what we want to be.


I don't deny that. That's why stated in my first post that it is a problem or at least concern. I just put it into perspective considering the small amount of individuals involved.

#30 Panthro

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:22 AM

. The right sees what threatens us and wants to protect our freedoms


By any means necessary! Even ignoring rights and freedoms we choose to defend!

America....fug yeah!


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