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Waterboarding was used on KSM and stopped a 9/11 style attack on LA

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lol wait of course it didn't and Fox News is blatantly lying

Clip here

Summary: Neil Cavuto, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Catherine Herridge joined other Fox News figures in advancing Marc Thiessen's claim that the use of harsh interrogations techniques on Khalid Shaikh Mohammed "stopped an attack on the Library Tower." But the Bush administration has said that the attack was thwarted more than a year before Mohammed was captured.

What clinches the falsity of Thiessen's claim, however (and that of the memo he cites, and that of an unnamed Central Intelligence Agency spokesman who today seconded Thessen's argument), is chronology. In a White House press briefing, Bush's counterterrorism chief, Frances Fragos Townsend, told reporters that the cell leader was arrested in February 2002, and "at that point, the other members of the cell" (later arrested) "believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward" [italics mine]. A subsequent fact sheet released by the Bush White House states, "In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast." These two statements make clear that however far the plot to attack the Library Tower ever got -- an unnamed senior FBI official would later tell the Los Angeles Times that Bush's characterization of it as a "disrupted plot" was "ludicrous" -- that plot was foiled in 2002. But Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 2003.

How could Sheikh Mohammed's water-boarded confession have prevented the Library Tower attack if the Bush administration "broke up" that attack during the previous year? It couldn't, of course. Conceivably the Bush administration, or at least parts of the Bush administration, didn't realize until Sheikh Mohammed confessed under torture that it had already broken up a plot to blow up the Library Tower about which it knew nothing. Stranger things have happened. But the plot was already a dead letter. If foiling the Library Tower plot was the reason to water-board Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, then that water-boarding was more than cruel and unjust. It was a waste of water.

of course the LA attack was a complete fantasy

Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism specialist who heads the Washington office of Rand Corp., said Bush's account adds some interesting detail to the Library Tower episode. But he said it still leaves key questions about the case unanswered.

"It doesn't really give us any more indication of whether this was a plot that was derailed or preempted, or a plot that was more in the realm of an idle daydream," Hoffman said.

Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (W.Va.), the ranking Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee, mocked the idea of raising the alleged Library Tower plot. "Maybe they're tired of talking about [the] Brooklyn Bridge and they're trying to find a different edifice of some sort," he said, referring to another alleged terrorist plot that some have said was inflated by the government.

The official said he believed the Library Tower plot was one of many Al Qaeda operations that had not gone much past the conceptual stage. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity, saying that those familiar with the plot feared political retaliation for providing a different characterization of the plan than that of the president.

Fox news, conservative politicians, and every poo head from here to Freep, are now using a time traveling boogey man whos brains have been tortured into spotted dick as a reason to defend blatant torture for reasons that no one can fully understand.

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It wouldn't surprise me if another 9/11 was not thwarted by these procedures. However it is very likely that information about terror/Taliban cells and locations were provided which probably saved many soldiers lives.

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It wouldn't surprise me if another 9/11 was not thwarted by these procedures. However it is very likely that information about terror/Taliban cells and locations were provided which probably saved many soldiers lives.

that's not the point, even though i'd contest that as well if it were

a news organization people on here admittedly watch and outspokenly believe is legitimate is spreading a lie that is demonstrably false.

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I doubt that waterboarding a top Lt. would provide a lot of day to day tactical battlefield knowledge. I do think that we could have gotten some info on some cells, especially in places like Indonesia....but not anything worth sacrificing our nations integrity for.

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As I have stated in another thread, this issue is small to me not because I fully approve of all the tactics but rather I choose not to let the big picture override the small one. The teachings of Jesus right on down to the famous phrase Captain America used every few months of, "if we stoop to their level, we are no better than them" certainly apply here and should be the foundation of how we judge these individuals. However I can not get past what they did and what is really in their heart. Knowing that they probably want (either now or at least at one time) to destroy my family for their cause is something I can not forgive or forget. Yes, it is probably simplistic but I can not get past it.

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24 Iz ReALZ LIFEZ!11!!!!!!1!!!!

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http://www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=26020

The “planned attack on Los Angeles” refers to an announcement made on February 9th 2006 in which it was claimed that an Al-Qaeda plan to fly a plane into the LA Library Tower was thwarted in 2002. The release of the news that the plot had been prevented by means of tapping terrorist suspect’s phone, and not torture as the CIA now claims, was politically timed to coincide with the start of legal hearings on the Bush administration’s domestic eavesdropping program.

Fox “News,” the White House’s PR mouthpiece, immediately began showing footage from the movie Independence Day, in which the famous tower is destroyed.

Hours after the announcement, the mayor of Los Angeles, Antonio Villaraigosa, went public with his absolute bewilderment concerning the alleged plot.

“I’m amazed that the president would make this (announcement) on national TV and not inform us of these details through the appropriate channels,” the mayor said in an interview with The Associated Press. “I don’t expect a call from the president — but somebody.”

The day after the announcement, twenty three separate intelligence experts, all with either CIA, FBI, NSA or military credentials, both in and out of service, angrily disputed Bush’s remarks about the alleged L.A. plot, with one going as far as saying that the President was “full of poo.”

you people watch this and believe it

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Fiz, how do you know everything about all things? It must be unbearable to you and those that know you well.

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It can't be any more unbearable than having no clue about anything.

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ignorance is bliss though

The Dark Knight did a fair job of this silpperly slope pushing the urgency of getting an answer while trying to not be emotional or lowering yourself to get that answer.

The waterboard issue aside. If you have these guys face to face, what would you do to gather pertinent info?

Not what Christopher Hitchins says but personally.

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And how are you to assure that it's pertinent info? I think the McCain thread is a perfect testament to that...

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to find out how crucial the info is, there has to be a way.

Im not saying waterboarding is the way to go. But if you capture someone or have a strong suspect you don't ask general info questions then call it a day.

But now with what will be released, the gig is up on any future waterboarding. Now any terrorists knows it won't be used and if so they know how to work around it.

So Im still going to ask. How would you find out info from someone you have in custody?

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Can I waterboard Fiz? I'd like to break the CIA's record, too.

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Hypothetical situation for the conservatives:

You have a chance to abort the person who will one day kill your family, do you now support abortion?

I sure as hell would!!1!!!

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pstall I think you are incorrect. I am sure that anyone so inclined would be trained to resist waterboarding if they knew that was our policy. Now how do they prepare? Everyone here assumes that there are no more tricks the CIA could use if needed, but I am sure that there are - and that they are not in the Army Field Manual.

Now we will hopefully get back to using more psycologically sound methods to get information.

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Hypothetical situation for the conservatives:

You have a chance to abort the person who will one day kill your family, do you now support abortion?

I sure as hell would!!1!!!

Especially if he was teh Ghey!

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pstall I think you are incorrect. I am sure that anyone so inclined would be trained to resist waterboarding if they knew that was our policy. Now how do they prepare? Everyone here assumes that there are no more tricks the CIA could use if needed, but I am sure that there are - and that they are not in the Army Field Manual.

Now we will hopefully get back to using more psycologically sound methods to get information.

Which is?

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Which is?

Hi, I'm Barack Obama. I apologize for the evils perpetrated by my country. Please tell me what you know.

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sex and drugs of course.

I am no expert on this stuff, but all the articles I've read have experts in the field of interrogation saying that this type of work generally yields unreliable information, so they must have some other methods that yield better results?

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So lets walk thru this. The guys waterboard. Whatever info they get they follow up on.

If its wrong time after time you would think they stop. Wouldn't there have to be something that had a sliver of credibilty/ results to continue?

Or did the suspects just tell them what they wanted to hear and either tripped up and gave away nuggets by accident or the guys doing the waterboarding are off the charts diabolical?

Again. Im not for waterboarding but I am for getting info. You don't sit this guys down with The Bobs and hope something comes out that can be used.

Of course now they are going to release pictures of detainees abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not sure what good will come from that.

Basically opening up a scab all over again.

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It's Freedom of Information. We have that here.

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so gas in other words, you have no clue.

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I just said I'm no expert on the stuff. Are you?

Not that that has anything to do with the fact that these photos are being release under the Freedom of Information Act, of which I know a small amount more of than torture methods other than American Idol.

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Hypothetical situation for the conservatives:

You have a chance to abort the person who will one day kill your family, do you now support abortion?

I sure as hell would!!1!!!

My prefered choice would be to sterilize the mom and dad & adopt the child to give it a better chance of turning out OK.

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What's the difference between sterilization and abortion?

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