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Jonathan Stewart The Most Elusive Rb In The Nfl?


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#25 PantherBrew

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:05 AM

Kudos to this thread so far for having rational, polite discussion without calling anyone retarded.

*Cue someone to call me a retard*

#26 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:07 AM

Tolbert plays into our passing scheme....not a sign we are trying to run over small defenses. Tolbert is a great blocker and reciever....and will lessen the blow if Stewart walks. Williams fits more of a Fox ground and pound. So losing Stewart hurts....really hurts without someone like Tolbert to take some of his reps.

#27 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:07 AM

Good info. However, I do not see us, in this offense, affording even $13 million. If you base all other logic on the assumption that $13 million is affordable, then your argument is logical.

I am guessing that $13 million is roughly 1/8 of the entire cap. We have 21 other starting positions. We have huge needs elsewhere.

I liken it to lunch money. If I have $20 and five children going to school, this is like giving $10 to one child and expecting the other 4 to split the rest. Gotta feed the entire family.


Remember this is cap space which can be easily manipulated. If we extend Smitty in the next few weeks we could free up around 4 million which when added to Wharton's June 1 release will add around 9 million in cap space. We have money for what we want to do which is sign our own.

#28 MHS831

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:08 AM

15 mil for the NFL's best backfield? i'll take it

u

You endorse spending 13% of the cap space on one position?

#29 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:11 AM

I agree ...we made our choice when we signed DWILL to that enormous contract.I guess the question is could we have paid Dwill in a manner to keep both? and the 2nd question should we have let Dwill go and kept the younger Stewart?


I think we talked to both last year when we made the contract to Williams. From what has been rumored, Stewart didn't want to negotiate. Why would we have let Williams go when Stewart wasn't even willing to discuss contract terms? I still think we can keep both of them.

#30 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:11 AM

20 million is way overstated. we will spend 13 million this year and likely 15 million next year assuming we keep all three. If we can't afford them next year, we can't afford them this year either,


Stewart is on the last year of a rookie deal. Affording him this year and next aren't the same.

This year, Stewart is cheap and the best RB on the roster. Would be dumb to trade him pending a team didn't offer something crazy for him. Get what we can out of him this year.... No reason not to

#31 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:12 AM

u

You endorse spending 13% of the cap space on one position?


We spend 20 million for a center and left tackle, do you endorse spending 1/6 of the cap for 2/5th of the offensive line that was rated 12th in the league??

#32 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:13 AM

Stewart has 5 good years left..if injury free..he would be worth spending on. Yes its a premium but the dynamic he brings is needed here.

How many time does he get hit and drag a defender for first downs..Deangelo has shown less ability to break tackles in the last two seasons.

With the devaluing of the RB position it will be interesting to see if stewart and agent handcuff the Panthers to the D-Will contract value..or realize the market is soft for a RB.

With that said..25(and possibly injury free) Stewart would command a higher dollar or a Forte- like offer next season if unrestricted.

#33 MHS831

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:14 AM

Remember this is cap space which can be easily manipulated. If we extend Smitty in the next few weeks we could free up around 4 million which when added to Wharton's June 1 release will add around 9 million in cap space. We have money for what we want to do which is sign our own.


I forgot about Wharton. However, I also know that manipulting the cap creates dead money eventually, and mortgages the future. I just would like to see a sensible balance of salaries. We are not a run-first team anymore. We do not need 2 stud RBs.

Again, to beat a dead horse, MH should have realized that when he signed DWill. What in the hell was he thinking? Most backs hit the wall at 30. DWIll is 29 and has 4 years left on a front loaded contract. No wonder Drew Rosenhaus recently commented that he liked dealing with Marty.

#34 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:16 AM

I think we talked to both last year when we made the contract to Williams. From what has been rumored, Stewart didn't want to negotiate. Why would we have let Williams go when Stewart wasn't even willing to discuss contract terms? I still think we can keep both of them.

Why would Stewart negotiate a new deal then? He would have the worlds worst agent of that happened.

So Stewart is going to watch Williams sign a huge deal and say no thanks....I don't want a huge deal to set myself and family up in a couple years....I will rework my deal today for the good of Carolina.

#35 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:18 AM

Stewart is on the last year of a rookie deal. Affording him this year and next aren't the same.

This year, Stewart is cheap and the best RB on the roster. Would be dumb to trade him pending a team didn't offer something crazy for him. Get what we can out of him this year.... No reason not to


Sure it is. Cap space is not the same as Salary. Wwe can sign him to a big contract but since he gets the signing bonus up front he doesn't need a big salary. So we have a cap friendly contract for 2013, he gets a fat signing bonus and the majority of the contract is deferred until 2014 or later when the cap increases. Meanwhile William's cap hit if we release him goes down every year so that by 2014 if we do a June 1st release we have a very manageable 3 million a year in dead cap space if hee tailss off his production. If he stay productive the 16 million will be only 1/10th of the cap hit in 2014.

If we trade Stewart it is because we know we can't sign him long-term and can't afford to tag him and pay him 8 million next year. The ball is in his court.

#36 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:27 AM

Yeah, Carolina CAN technically sign him....but it is dumb at this stage to pay Stewart his worth when he accounts for a small fraction of the production. You pay someone what Stewart deserves when he accounts for 70-80% of your running production.

Paying these RBs for small amounts of production on an offense being built around Cam....just limits what the team can do at other positions.

I love Stewart and you know I wanted him and that Carolina should of parted with Williams but what is done is done....I can't endorse them keeping both. Not worth it. Doesn't matter if they can find a way to give him a similar contract to Williams...not worth the cost to the team.

Stewart will deserve a slightly better deal than Williams....Carolina shouldn't offer that. Ball is in Carolina's court and that is why Stewart won't negotiate now. Carolina will either pay or he will look elsewhere.