Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Jonathan Stewart The Most Elusive Rb In The Nfl?


  • Please log in to reply
174 replies to this topic

#31 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,105 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:12 AM

u

You endorse spending 13% of the cap space on one position?


We spend 20 million for a center and left tackle, do you endorse spending 1/6 of the cap for 2/5th of the offensive line that was rated 12th in the league??

#32 TANTRIC-NINJA

TANTRIC-NINJA

    No please, tell me more about this Amway....sounds promising

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,964 posts
  • LocationColumbia, South Kacky

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:13 AM

Stewart has 5 good years left..if injury free..he would be worth spending on. Yes its a premium but the dynamic he brings is needed here.

How many time does he get hit and drag a defender for first downs..Deangelo has shown less ability to break tackles in the last two seasons.

With the devaluing of the RB position it will be interesting to see if stewart and agent handcuff the Panthers to the D-Will contract value..or realize the market is soft for a RB.

With that said..25(and possibly injury free) Stewart would command a higher dollar or a Forte- like offer next season if unrestricted.

#33 MHS831

MHS831

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,418 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:14 AM

Remember this is cap space which can be easily manipulated. If we extend Smitty in the next few weeks we could free up around 4 million which when added to Wharton's June 1 release will add around 9 million in cap space. We have money for what we want to do which is sign our own.


I forgot about Wharton. However, I also know that manipulting the cap creates dead money eventually, and mortgages the future. I just would like to see a sensible balance of salaries. We are not a run-first team anymore. We do not need 2 stud RBs.

Again, to beat a dead horse, MH should have realized that when he signed DWill. What in the hell was he thinking? Most backs hit the wall at 30. DWIll is 29 and has 4 years left on a front loaded contract. No wonder Drew Rosenhaus recently commented that he liked dealing with Marty.

#34 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,641 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:16 AM

I think we talked to both last year when we made the contract to Williams. From what has been rumored, Stewart didn't want to negotiate. Why would we have let Williams go when Stewart wasn't even willing to discuss contract terms? I still think we can keep both of them.

Why would Stewart negotiate a new deal then? He would have the worlds worst agent of that happened.

So Stewart is going to watch Williams sign a huge deal and say no thanks....I don't want a huge deal to set myself and family up in a couple years....I will rework my deal today for the good of Carolina.

#35 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,105 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:18 AM

Stewart is on the last year of a rookie deal. Affording him this year and next aren't the same.

This year, Stewart is cheap and the best RB on the roster. Would be dumb to trade him pending a team didn't offer something crazy for him. Get what we can out of him this year.... No reason not to


Sure it is. Cap space is not the same as Salary. Wwe can sign him to a big contract but since he gets the signing bonus up front he doesn't need a big salary. So we have a cap friendly contract for 2013, he gets a fat signing bonus and the majority of the contract is deferred until 2014 or later when the cap increases. Meanwhile William's cap hit if we release him goes down every year so that by 2014 if we do a June 1st release we have a very manageable 3 million a year in dead cap space if hee tailss off his production. If he stay productive the 16 million will be only 1/10th of the cap hit in 2014.

If we trade Stewart it is because we know we can't sign him long-term and can't afford to tag him and pay him 8 million next year. The ball is in his court.

#36 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,641 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:27 AM

Yeah, Carolina CAN technically sign him....but it is dumb at this stage to pay Stewart his worth when he accounts for a small fraction of the production. You pay someone what Stewart deserves when he accounts for 70-80% of your running production.

Paying these RBs for small amounts of production on an offense being built around Cam....just limits what the team can do at other positions.

I love Stewart and you know I wanted him and that Carolina should of parted with Williams but what is done is done....I can't endorse them keeping both. Not worth it. Doesn't matter if they can find a way to give him a similar contract to Williams...not worth the cost to the team.

Stewart will deserve a slightly better deal than Williams....Carolina shouldn't offer that. Ball is in Carolina's court and that is why Stewart won't negotiate now. Carolina will either pay or he will look elsewhere.

#37 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,105 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:33 AM

I forgot about Wharton. However, I also know that manipulting the cap creates dead money eventually, and mortgages the future. I just would like to see a sensible balance of salaries. We are not a run-first team anymore. We do not need 2 stud RBs.

Again, to beat a dead horse, MH should have realized that when he signed DWill. What in the hell was he thinking? Most backs hit the wall at 30. DWIll is 29 and has 4 years left on a front loaded contract. No wonder Drew Rosenhaus recently commented that he liked dealing with Marty.


You are beating a dead horse, LOL. But I believe Hurney talked to Williams and Stewart last year before he signed Williams. Gantt tweeted that Williams negotiated and Stewart didn't want to talk. So he had to at least sign one of them so they signed Williams. I suspect they have continueed to talk with Stewart and that bringing in Tolbert was to mitigate the loss if we trade Stewart or lose him next year to free agency. People act like Stewart is some sort of victim to the cap here but I don't think so. If he wants to be here, Hurney will work it out.

As for this not being a running team, I disagree. You have to play to the strengths of your players. With Newton, Stewart and Williams we have the most prolific ground game in the league. The league might be going to a passing league but what if you could do both? What if you could run for 3000 yards and pass for 4500 yards. The thing is Newton provides something unique in the league so you can't judge us by other teams and trends. Who in the league has a QB who can run and pass like Newton? Why limit ourselves to a passing offense who can run when we can redefine offense in this league.

#38 number28

number28

    NEWB

  • NEWB
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:34 AM

I think we talked to both last year when we made the contract to Williams. From what has been rumored, Stewart didn't want to negotiate. Why would we have let Williams go when Stewart wasn't even willing to discuss contract terms? I still think we can keep both of them.


because there was still 2 seasons left on stewart's contract...plenty of time to work out a deal and/or find competent backups/replacements.

but instead, williams is given a contract that is now a starting point for stewart's. $43 million is the bone dry least that carolina can pay stewart to stay...and that's like him taking a home town discount.

i mentioned a while back about how williams's contract rewrote the payscale for nfl RBs.

as much as i like stewart, the front office has put themselves in a position where it needs to trade stewart or let him walk.

#39 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,105 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:36 AM

Why would Stewart negotiate a new deal then? He would have the worlds worst agent of that happened.

So Stewart is going to watch Williams sign a huge deal and say no thanks....I don't want a huge deal to set myself and family up in a couple years....I will rework my deal today for the good of Carolina.

Because we will pay him more thhan he can get on the open market. Name any player who left here in free agency or was released who got more money elsewhere? We even offered to pay Peppers as much or more than Chicago did.

We will pay Stewart more than anyone else and just as much as Williams. It will be structured differently but the end result will be the same.,

#40 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,105 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:42 AM

Yeah, Carolina CAN technically sign him....but it is dumb at this stage to pay Stewart his worth when he accounts for a small fraction of the production. You pay someone what Stewart deserves when he accounts for 70-80% of your running production.

Paying these RBs for small amounts of production on an offense being built around Cam....just limits what the team can do at other positions.

I love Stewart and you know I wanted him and that Carolina should of parted with Williams but what is done is done....I can't endorse them keeping both. Not worth it. Doesn't matter if they can find a way to give him a similar contract to Williams...not worth the cost to the team.

Stewart will deserve a slightly better deal than Williams....Carolina shouldn't offer that. Ball is in Carolina's court and that is why Stewart won't negotiate now. Carolina will either pay or he will look elsewhere.


Stewart accounted for only about 100 yards less than Steve Smith. Are you saying we should pay Smith 8.7 million to account for 1300 yards, but not pay Stewart 5 or 6 million to account for right at 1200 yards??

As for a better deal than Williams, who is going to pay Stewart that if not us? It isn't what Williams got but what he could get from another team. The ball is in Stewart's court, he can negotiate or hold out hoping for better. In either case with us holding the franchise tag, we have the power to keep him or trade him.

#41 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,105 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:48 AM

because there was still 2 seasons left on stewart's contract...plenty of time to work out a deal and/or find competent backups/replacements.

but instead, williams is given a contract that is now a starting point for stewart's. $43 million is the bone dry least that carolina can pay stewart to stay...and that's like him taking a home town discount.

i mentioned a while back about how williams's contract rewrote the payscale for nfl RBs.

as much as i like stewart, the front office has put themselves in a position where it needs to trade stewart or let him walk.


I disagree on all counts. First of all I think we can and will offer a contract like Williams except it will be back loaded instead of front loaded like William's was to account for signing Stewart next year. I also think Stewart is not in competition with Williams but the going rate for running backs in 2013. If the best deal he can get is less than Williams got but is still better than what anyone else will offer, he would be a fool not to take it. Finally I really doubt they have to trade him or let him walk. If they put a non-exclusive tag on him next year he can negotiate with other teams and find out his worth. Then we either sign him or he goes elsewhere and we get a first rounder which is what we paid for him anyway.

#42 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,641 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:48 AM

Because we will pay him more thhan he can get on the open market. Name any player who left here in free agency or was released who got more money elsewhere? We even offered to pay Peppers as much or more than Chicago did.

We will pay Stewart more than anyone else and just as much as Williams. It will be structured differently but the end result will be the same.,


Mario Williams, Nnamdi....

And if Carolina pays Stewart a comparable deal that is dumb....regardless of how try structure it. You don't pay role players for limited production that kind of money...you go out an pay someone at a more valuable position to play 90% of the snaps

#43 Zod

Zod

    YOUR RULER

  • MFCEO
  • 19,700 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:51 AM

True Story: The other players call JStew "The Hulk" because of his freakish physique and athletic ability.

#44 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,641 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:51 AM

Cam is signed through 2014 with an option year already built in 2015. There is absolutely no reason to worry about extending him before 2014 at the earliest. We only have to worry about 2013 and as I just showed a few posts ago, the increase next year to keep Stewart will likely be around 2 million dollars. Not the king's ransom some of you suggest or that much more than we are spendiing this year. With the cap space likely to go up by 20-30 million in 2014, there is not a huge crisis here.


How many good players does Carolina allow to reach the last year of there contract that they believe are part of there long term plans? So if going by what Carolina has PROVEN they will want to address Newton before 2014.



#45 jarhead

jarhead

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,389 posts
  • Locationnear Charlotte

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:56 AM

I think we talked to both last year when we made the contract to Williams. From what has been rumored, Stewart didn't want to negotiate. Why would we have let Williams go when Stewart wasn't even willing to discuss contract terms? I still think we can keep both of them.

I did not realize that.You are correct if that was the case


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com - IP Content Design by Joshua Tree / TitansReport.