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Brockers Vs Cox

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I watched both players in their respective games vs the National Champs, Alabama. I broke down every single play for both players to learn their strengths, weaknesses and to see if their motor started to dwindle when they were losing big.

I wanted to see what position each player primarily played, ie. 3 tech, 5 tech, 1 tech, or the zero.
Where do they excel, and how they will fit in our scheme. Defensive lineman stats are misleading to me, so I wanted to look for impact plays. Those stats are not recorded. How many plays did the DT penetrate, causing the QB throw and incomplete pass, or interception, or broke a double team that caused the RB to re-direct. Those are impact plays.

My results were interesting, and not what I expected.

Brockers - 42 defensive plays
Cox - 41 defensive plays

The sample size is almost identical, but Brockers does have 1 special teams play where he blocked a FG attempt.

Cox is purely a 3-tech in our base scheme and 5-tech in passing downs.
Brockers is a lot more versatile, as he played 4 different positions in that single game but is primarily a NT.

0-tech = 4
1-tech = 23
3-tech = 11
5-tech = 4[list]
[*]Brockers was double teamed 20 times, while Cox was doubled 16 times.
[*]Brockers made 17 impact plays, while Cox had 10 impact plays
[*]Brockers played consistently throughout the game, while Cox significantly declined the last 6 plays
[*]Brockers was much more aware on diagnosing plays than Cox
[*]Cox overran several plays because he was too aggressive
[/list]
Brockers has better stamina, but Cox has the better motor. Cox has a very impressive motor. Brockers is the better player right now, and more disciplined. [list]
[*]Brockers made 3/11 impact plays while at 3-tech
[*]Brockers made 13/27 impact plays while at 1-tech or 0-tech
[*]Cox made 6/29 impact plays while at 3-tech
[*]Cox made 4/11 impact plays while at 5-tech
[/list]
In conclusion, Brockers is definitely the better player. He is amazing against the run, and gets double teamed on half pass attempts.
Cox is the better pass rusher but overruns plays due to his aggressiveness too often. Not a heady player, but he gives 110% all the time even when tired. Not effective late in game. He was amazing the first 11 snaps.. so he may be a great rotational pass rusher in the beginning of his career. Don't take the word amazing lightly. He graded out A or B on 10/12 of his first snaps.

Brockers plays the same position as Ron Edwards, so I am not sure he is a 'need' for us. Cox is a rare talent that is very quick and can be an amazing pass rush specialist early in his career. I don't see him as an every down player (right now). If we are looking for a guy who can put pressure on the QB, then we go Cox, if we are looking for a dominating inside presence to stop the run, then Brockers is our man. But, clearly Brockers is the better player overall.

I would upload my excel spreadsheet, but for some reason it says "You are not permitted to upload this kind of file"
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cox brock

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[quote name='Lout' timestamp='1334081764' post='1724444']

I would upload my excel spreadsheet, but for some reason it says "You are not permitted to upload this kind of file"
[/quote]

Do a print screen

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[quote name='MLP_RB' timestamp='1334085938' post='1724602']
Do a print screen
[/quote]

Great idea. You sir, are a problem solver.

How he hell do I post an image off my desktop?

Normally there is a paperclip icon.. but I don't see it anywhere.

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Beside the post button there is a More Reply Option


click on it and you'll see it

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Breakdown is good But I don't agree with Cox not being a every down player.

1. You must remeber looking at the games Miss. State offense did nothing and put the defense in alot of bad position. Plus Miss. State was pretty much out of the game by the start of the 4th qrt. If it wasn't for the defense then Miss. State would have been blown out. LSU were in closer games there offense stayed on the field longer and didn't turn the ball over like Miss. State offense did.

2. You can't just watch 1 game and make such a indepht opinion.

3. Again I like both player and would be happier with either one. I just think this Idea of Brockers having more upside is a little missplaced.

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Brockers Excel Spreadsheet on Bama game

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This is the conclusion I have come to as well.

I want Brockers, dude will be a BEAST DT in the league.

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It wont let me attach the Cox file. It says it's too big to upload. I need 25kb more. Can a mod help me with that?

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I was thinking the same thing. Do we really need three pass rushers on the Dline. Both Brockers and Edwards occupying two Brockers not only shuts down the middle but allows charles johnson and greg hardy to be one on one. It allows Beason, Anderson, And TD to run all around the field. Brockers allows us too run a hybrid 3-4 with him and shirley on the ends and charles johnson and or Antwan Applewhite rushing of the edge. Plus Brockers has better rush moves than cox with the exception of the spin. A better body. Gets high in his blocks and still holds up to double teams. And my last point.... Cox only has 3.5 more sacks then Brockers... Good grief.... Once he gets coached up I guarantee he will have the better career. Playoffs 2013... Superbowl 2014.... Don't get me wrong i don't hate cox but if Brockers played for Mississippi State and got that many reps we wouldn't be having this conversation.....

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[quote name='Jack Power' timestamp='1334090248' post='1724715']
I was thinking the same thing. Do we really need three pass rushers on the Dline. Both Brockers and Edwards occupying two Brockers not only shuts down the middle but allows charles johnson and greg hardy to be one on one. It allows Beason, Anderson, And TD to run all around the field. Brockers allows us too run a hybrid 3-4 with him and shirley on the ends and charles johnson and or Antwan Applewhite rushing of the edge. Plus Brockers has better rush moves than cox with the exception of the spin. A better body. Gets high in his blocks and still holds up to double teams. And my last point.... Cox only has 3.5 more sacks then Brockers... Good grief.... Once he gets coached up I guarantee he will have the better career. Playoffs 2013... Superbowl 2014.... Don't get me wrong i don't hate cox but if Brockers played for Mississippi State and got that many reps we wouldn't be having this conversation.....
[/quote]

The one thing I would mention is that Cox has a rip move remenisent of Jenkins.. his burst is so fast that he is in the backfield before the Oline moves off the snap. He has a decent spin move. Brockers had a swim and bull rush. I'd give the edge to Cox in the pass rush move department.

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[quote name='Jack Power' timestamp='1334090248' post='1724715']
I was thinking the same thing. Do we really need three pass rushers on the Dline. Both Brockers and Edwards occupying two Brockers not only shuts down the middle but allows charles johnson and greg hardy to be one on one. It allows Beason, Anderson, And TD to run all around the field. Brockers allows us too run a hybrid 3-4 with him and shirley on the ends and charles johnson and or Antwan Applewhite rushing of the edge. Plus Brockers has better rush moves than cox with the exception of the spin. A better body. Gets high in his blocks and still holds up to double teams. And my last point.... Cox only has 3.5 more sacks then Brockers... Good grief....
[/quote]


This is the stupidest post I've seen today.

1. Hell yes I want 3 pass rushers on the line. Give me 4 guys that can rush the passer.

2. You people act like Cox sucks against the run. Cox is just as good against the run as Brockers is. This dude had 56 tackles 14 for were TFL. Brockers had 30 tackles 9.5 TFL.

3. Brockers a better Pass rusher then Cox? Are you serious? Gtfo

4. Dash keeps calling Cox a "tweener". He is the same size and weight as Suh he is not a normal tweener type. He can play day 1 as a 3 down Dt starter.

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Brockers > Cox, but I'd be happy with either.

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[quote name='koolkatluke' timestamp='1334091011' post='1724748']
This is the stupidest post I've seen today.

1. Hell yes I want 3 pass rushers on the line. Give me 4 guys that can rush the passer.

2. You people act like Cox sucks against the run. [b]Cox is just as good against the run as Brockers is[/b]. This dude had 56 tackles 14 for were TFL. Brockers had 30 tackles 9.5 TFL.

3. Brockers a better Pass rusher then Cox? Are you serious? Gtfo

4. Dash keeps calling Cox a "tweener". He is the same size and weight as Suh he is not a normal tweener type. [b]He can play day 1 as a 3 down Dt [/b]starter.
[/quote]

I agree with most of what you said, except the highlighted. Brockers is far better against the run (very noticeable against double teams). When Cox penetrates of the LOS and gets into the backfield he can blow a run play up, but at the point of attack, Brockers is a lot better.

I believe Cox could play 3 downs, but I don't think you'd want him to. He had the propensity to gas out in the 4th quarter. He was absoutely amazing in the 1st quarter.. so I think he would be best suited as a rotational pass rusher in his first season, until he is able to get his stamina up. I think he could have 6 sacks his first season keeping him fresh for passing situations. He does not hold up well against double teams.. however, I don't think he would see many doubles in the NFL on run downs.

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I would be interested to see the OP run the same review with both guys against Ole miss. I watched some of both of their game tapes against bama and they both look good. Someone already noted that brockers is really good anchoring against the double team and I'd certainly agree with that. Coz however looks substantially better against the pass but I wouldnt be shocked if brockers looked better in a more pass oriented scheme.

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[quote name='Lout' timestamp='1334093700' post='1724818']
I agree with most of what you said, except the highlighted. Brockers is far better against the run (very noticeable against double teams). When Cox penetrates of the LOS and gets into the backfield he can blow a run play up, but at the point of attack, Brockers is a lot better.

I believe Cox could play 3 downs, but I don't think you'd want him to. He had the propensity to gas out in the 4th quarter. He was absoutely amazing in the 1st quarter.. so I think he would be best suited as a rotational pass rusher in his first season, until he is able to get his stamina up. I think he could have 6 sacks his first season keeping him fresh for passing situations. He does not hold up well against double teams.. however, I don't think he would see many doubles in the NFL on run downs.
[/quote]


I think that has more to do with the fact the Miss. State defense was always on the field. LSU had a better offense and Defense got a alot of turn overs from Mo Clay and the Honey Badger at CB. Miss. State only had a defense so they were on the field all day.

This isn't a night and day comparisom when talking about run defenders. Brockers maybe a little bit better but this isn't a way better thing here.

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Solid breakdown but you have to add the teams they played on and the Talent around them as well.

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one thing you have to take into account as well is LSU is deep and had the talent to rotate guys in and all out during the game, therefore allowing the starters to stay freah for the cruntch time in the 4th quarter. Miss St didnt have that luxury, but i would take either DT.

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[quote name='koolkatluke' timestamp='1334095147' post='1724849']
I think that has more to do with the fact the Miss. State defense was always on the field. LSU had a better offense and Defense got a alot of turn overs from Mo Clay and the Honey Badger at CB. Miss. State only had a defense so they were on the field all day.
[/quote]

The defensive play totals for [b]Brockers was 42, to Cox's 41 defensive snaps[/b]. They were almost identical. (For that singular game). I do not like going off one individual game, but I am sure that NFL front office's are looking at this exact game against the top competition.

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I hate brockers. DO NOT WANT. Gimme cox. Cox is much better

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[quote name='calipanther' timestamp='1334094687' post='1724838']
I would be interested to see the OP run the same review with both guys against Ole miss. I watched some of both of their game tapes against bama and they both look good. Someone already noted that brockers is really good anchoring against the double team and I'd certainly agree with that. Coz however looks substantially better against the pass but I wouldnt be shocked if brockers looked better in a more pass oriented scheme.
[/quote]

I can do Ole Miss tomorrow.

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I wanted Brockers in the beginning of the offseason and I still want him. Only other DL player that I wouldn't be angry at is Coples.

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I don't think Brockers is a NT in the NFL. I think he will play the 3 technique and when we go 3-4 he will slide outside. I could also see him play some 5 technique given his speed and quickness for such a big guy. I reallt think he is the most versatile guy in the draft on the defensive line.

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Your Breakdown still doesn't take into account .

1. The talent Brockers had around him like Mo clay and Honey Badger.

2. Better Offense and Special teams at LSU which put the LSU defense in a better position.

3. Still have to watch more then 1 game. Cox had a great performance against USC which was a pretty good team.

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[quote name='panthers55' timestamp='1334101907' post='1724981']
I don't think Brockers is a NT in the NFL. I think he will play the 3 technique and when we go 3-4 he will slide outside. I could also see him play some 5 technique given his speed and quickness for such a big guy. I reallt think he is the most versatile guy in the draft on the defensive line.
[/quote]


A lot of smaller player have been NT why can't Brockers?

Again Kelly Greg is 6'0 310 and Ron Edwards is 6'3 315 both have been solid DT.

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