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Greg Cosell Podcast On D-Lineman


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#1 Man Strength

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:33 AM

http://t.co/FgG77IOR

(not sure why the podcast is showing here and not working, but here is another link to it http://t.co/FgG77IOR )


tremendous chunks of knowledge throughout.

A few highlights:

Cox is somewhat reminiscent of Dareus, especially as related to his versatility, but Cox is a better athlete. In class by himself compared to other DTs.

Chandler Jones is his favorite( ie the best) DE in the draft

Ingram is most talented D-lineman in the draft (quoted as having Bruce Lee like hands). Will need to be used creatively. Can cover rb, te. Easily best D-line athlete.

Not high on Brockers and sees him as a developmental project only. No pass rush, no burst, etc. Power only player and hard to judge if Brockers is powerful enough to translate strength into NFL.

Poe- suffering from blowback of negative criticism to the extreme. He does have some good tape and his problems are generally coachable. Obviously great athlete. When he played low he was incredible.

Kendall Reyes- poor man's Fletcher Cox

#2 Kuech the Sneak

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:43 AM

I'm so torn on this draft, but one thing I know for sure is that I want a d-lineman in the first two rounds.

#3 unicar15

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:49 AM

Wow...If Cossell is comparing Cox to Dareus and is considering him the best DT "by far" in this draft then I hope we stay in at #9 and draft him. This has made me a believer.

I see Ingram as a DeMarcus Ware type DE/OLB...doesn't really fit in our current scheme. If we were playing in a 3-4 then take him but I don't want him setting the edge against the run on an every down basis.

I hope Cox is the guy if Claiborne gets snatched up.

#4 Ruff

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:51 AM

Cosell is a dude that knows his stuff. He's not just some random talking head.

#5 Ruff

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:52 AM

Wow...If Cossell is comparing Cox to Dareus and is considering him the best DT "by far" in this draft then I hope we stay in at #9 and draft him. This has made me a believer.

I see Ingram as a DeMarcus Ware type DE/OLB...doesn't really fit in our current scheme. If we were playing in a 3-4 then take him but I don't want him setting the edge against the run on an every down basis.

I hope Cox is the guy if Claiborne gets snatched up.


I absolutely agree. I think that Ingram could be one of the best players in the Draft, he just doesn't fit our scheme. If we drafted him, I could see us changing to a 34 sometime in the future, but I don't see that happening.

#6 panthers55

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

Jones is all over the place on draft boards. One guy has him going in the top 20 others th bottom of second. One draft has him going in the fourth. Don't see fitting the role of being an impact player right away.

here is what everyone else says about Jones.


Jones has great length and the right size for a natural 4-3 defensive end. He could add a little more strength and bulk to his lower body, but he's a well-built guy with no big concerns in his game. Like most college prospects, small tweaks to his game will really help him out. Jones needs to stay low and keep his leverage. This is achieved through a more natural or "springy" knee bend. Needs to better utilize his length, whether it is taking longer, more powerful steps off the line or engaging his long arms into his blocker.


His pass rush is a bit unrefined, but these strategies can be cleaned up through coaching. Blockers can typically push him upright and kill his forward momentum; that is a bit of a concern for scouts.


Jones doesn't have a great burst, but the blueprint for a good starting defensive end is there if he continues to work.



http://www.fftoolbox...rospect_id=3125


Plays upright vs. the run game as well, fails to consistently gain leverage and doesn't extend his arms well into contact. However, has the natural length to extend when engaged in order to create room for himself and shed. Showcases good range for his size off his frame in the run game and can chase off his frame and use his length to close in pursuit. Lacks ideal anchor ability, but because of his natural strength and length makes it tough for opposing blockers to stay engaged.

Missed time this season with a knee injury and will need to check out medically.

Impression: I love his size and length. But I worry about defensive lineman who play upright, lack a great get off burst and struggle to change directions. I don't see him as a big time pass rusher. But if he improves his pad level he could mature into a potential starting option.

http://www.nationalf...ml&player=38258

Positives -- Great length and is a good size for a 4-3 defensive end; has a long frame that should allow him to put on some more muscle... His athleticism could allow him to play some 3-4 outside linebacker in obvious passing situations... Uses his hands well to get blockers Shows a
nice jab that can catch players off guard... Has some natural power to his game; when he gets a good first step his bull rush is very tough to stop... His long wingspan allows him to use his swim move effectively; his length allows him to extend off of blockers and his arms allow him to reach out and grab ball carriers that are near... Doesn't stop working until the whistle is blown; motor is off the charts... Was very productive despite being a constant target of double teams in college... All of the physical tools are there, just needs good coaching to refine him into the starter that he should become.

Negatives -- Not fast enough to beat tackles around the edge; lacks the first step to get around athletic lineman... Needs to play with better pad level, gets too upright and can be easily driven off the line by a stronger player... Takes too much time when trying to get past players; instead of taking two or three steps he'll take five or six and this can take him out of plays... Struggles with the change of direction; counters and misdirections can eat him alive... Needs to add more bulk to his upper and lower body... Needs to develop a secondary move to complement his swim move... Needs to be more consistent; will show up for a game then will be a no show in the next one... Missed five games in 2011 with a knee injury and needs to be medically checked out.

Read more: http://www.sidelines.../#ixzz1sbNDWMML



My overall impression from these reports is that he is a project with injury concerns. The best DE in the draft?? Cossell seems to be the only one saying that.

#7 panthers55

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:21 PM

Wow...If Cossell is comparing Cox to Dareus and is considering him the best DT "by far" in this draft then I hope we stay in at #9 and draft him. This has made me a believer.

I see Ingram as a DeMarcus Ware type DE/OLB...doesn't really fit in our current scheme. If we were playing in a 3-4 then take him but I don't want him setting the edge against the run on an every down basis.

I hope Cox is the guy if Claiborne gets snatched up.

I absolutely agree. I think that Ingram could be one of the best players in the Draft, he just doesn't fit our scheme. If we drafted him, I could see us changing to a 34 sometime in the future, but I don't see that happening.


He compared Ingram to Freeney. What scheme does Freeney play in?? Yeah a 4-3. Cossell said he could play in a 4-3 but show versatility to do other things.
If you agree with him on Cox then agree on Ingram. Funny how people hear what they want.

#8 Ruff

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

He compared Ingram to Freeney. What scheme does Freeney play in?? Yeah a 4-3. Cossell said he could play in a 4-3 but show versatility to do other things.
If you agree with him on Cox then agree on Ingram. Funny how people hear what they want.


Freeney doesn't play in the same style of defense we have, either. Just because it's a 43. Freeney plays in a the Dungy-style Tampa 2, where the defensive front is consisted of smaller guys that out maneuver the offensive line to create a pass rush with the linebackers.

If we still had Meeks as a D coordinator, I would agree with you, that he should be the pick. But, we have shown that we want to use huge defensive tackles, and big(ger) defensive ends.

Also, did I say I agreed with him on Cox? If you see my post, I bolded the portion of the quote that I said I agree with. Funny how people read what they want to read. Jackass.

#9 panthers55

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

Freeney doesn't play in the same style of defense we have, either. Just because it's a 43. Freeney plays in a the Dungy-style Tampa 2, where the defensive front is consisted of smaller guys that out maneuver the offensive line to create a pass rush with the linebackers.

If we still had Meeks as a D coordinator, I would agree with you, that he should be the pick. But, we have shown that we want to use huge defensive tackles, and big(ger) defensive ends.

Also, did I say I agreed with him on Cox? If you see my post, I bolded the portion of the quote that I said I agree with. Funny how people read what they want to read. Jackass.


Can you respond without the middle school personal attacks? I thought this was an adult forum and this isn't smack.

As to your points. We did run a pretty basic 4-3 cover 2 defense last year. I understand what we were supposedly going to run but until we do, what we have is what happened. A Tampa 2 is a cover 2 defense with the middle linebacker deep.

As for bigger defensive ends, lets see if that is true. Who have we brought in so far this year??

Applewhite- 6'3" 258
Dillard - 6'0" 252

Both guys we wanted to use as edge rushers and not true linebackers.

How about Keiser who Hurney said yesterday they were high on.

Keiser- 6'3" 261

Even Johnson who is our premier guy is 6'2" 276. When he came into the league he was in the high 260s.

So tell me again how Ingram at 6'2" 264 is too small to play in this scheme.

And just like I responded factually and adult like, how about elevating yourself as well.

#10 MadHatter

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:57 PM

Can you respond without the middle school personal attacks? I thought this was an adult forum and this isn't smack.

As to your points. We did run a pretty basic 4-3 cover 2 defense last year. I understand what we were supposedly going to run but until we do, what we have is what happened. A Tampa 2 is a cover 2 defense with the middle linebacker deep.

As for bigger defensive ends, lets see if that is true. Who have we brought in so far this year??

Applewhite- 6'3" 258
Dillard - 6'0" 252

Both guys we wanted to use as edge rushers and not true linebackers.

How about Keiser who Hurney said yesterday they were high on.

Keiser- 6'3" 261

Even Johnson who is our premier guy is 6'2" 276. When he came into the league he was in the high 260s.

So tell me again how Ingram at 6'2" 264 is too small to play in this scheme.

And just like I responded factually and adult like, how about elevating yourself as well.


He NEVER said that he was too small to play in this scheme. Only that his strengths were likely to be greater if he were used more as a 3-4 OLB who could be let loose on the QB (ala Ware). He could definitely play a 4-3 DE....but that is NOT his strength.

#11 Ruff

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:04 PM

Applewhite- 6'3" 258
Dillard - 6'0" 252
How about Keiser who Hurney said yesterday they were high on.

Keiser- 6'3" 261


Johnson was drafted under a different scheme, so he doesn't count.

Keiser played OLB in college in a 34.

Applewhite played OLB both in San Diego, and some for us last year. And yes, he did play DE, but that was in subpackages.

Dillard I'm not sure about.

#12 Ruff

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:06 PM

He NEVER said that he was too small to play in this scheme. Only that his strengths were likely to be greater if he were used more as a 3-4 OLB who could be let loose on the QB (ala Ware). He could definitely play a 4-3 DE....but that is NOT his strength.


Thank God someone understands.

#13 panthers55

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:07 PM

He NEVER said that he was too small to play in this scheme. Only that his strengths were likely to be greater if he were used more as a 3-4 OLB who could be let loose on the QB (ala Ware). He could definitely play a 4-3 DE....but that is NOT his strength.


Actually Ruff said we were using bigger defensive ends which is what I responded to. He also implied that Ingram didn't fit our scheme because we weren't using Indy's Tampa 2 which uses smaller defensive ends. I pointed out that last year we did run a similar scheme and that most of our DEs were similar in size to Ingram and Freeney. So are you talking about Ruff or Cossell which are 2 very different things.

As for Ingram he played college in a 4-3. He would be willing be play OLB linebacker in the NFL as he did his freshmen year before moving to DE but he would be fine in our 4-3. I can understand where some may think his strength is a 3-4 but if you look at production it has been a 4-3. My point is that if we are bringing in Applewhite, and Tucker to be modified pass rushers and Ingram is the same size as Keiser and cloe to hat we have with Johnson, and we are running a modified scheme with DEs who need to be mobile to play the zone blitz as well as edge rush, he is perfect for our scheme. He is similar to the guys we have brought in and provides versatility we can't find elsewhere. f you think about it as I said in another thread he could solve our linebacker and defensive end issue. He is ideally suited for us in my uninformed opinion.

#14 DaCityKats

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:09 PM

Can you respond without the middle school personal attacks? I thought this was an adult forum and this isn't smack.

As to your points. We did run a pretty basic 4-3 cover 2 defense last year. I understand what we were supposedly going to run but until we do, what we have is what happened. A Tampa 2 is a cover 2 defense with the middle linebacker deep.

As for bigger defensive ends, lets see if that is true. Who have we brought in so far this year??

Applewhite- 6'3" 258
Dillard - 6'0" 252

Both guys we wanted to use as edge rushers and not true linebackers.

How about Keiser who Hurney said yesterday they were high on.

Keiser- 6'3" 261

Even Johnson who is our premier guy is 6'2" 276. When he came into the league he was in the high 260s.

So tell me again how Ingram at 6'2" 264 is too small to play in this scheme.

And just like I responded factually and adult like, how about elevating yourself as well.


Dillard is a LB,i think you are talking about Jyles Tucker.

#15 panthers55

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:13 PM

Johnson was drafted under a different scheme, so he doesn't count.

Keiser played OLB in college in a 34.

Applewhite played OLB both in San Diego, and some for us last year. And yes, he did play DE, but that was in subpackages.

Dillard I'm not sure about.


We paid Johnson 76 million to be in this scheme so he does count.

Again we said Keiser was a good DE for us and were excited to have him. Applewhite and Dillard are linebackers as well will eddge rush.

You are making my point. Ingram gives us an elite edge rusher, considered the best DE in the draft, and can play linebacker as well. 3 of his sacks have come at the 1 technique where he blew by a slower guard in pass blocking. This guy can play wherever we want him to and offers a unique ability.

But I won't go into pages of posts because I would be surprised if we pick him.


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