Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Never Paid Attention To The Draft. Some Very General Observations About Drafting

Hindsight is 20:20

  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#16 DawgzLife

DawgzLife

    Charter Fan '93

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 999 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:36 PM

Giving up a 3rd is much more palatable than giving up a 1st or 2nd. Also if there's a guy in the 3rd round next year that Hurney likes he will go and get him.


And he will have to give up even more picks to get back into the 3rd. IMO, he needs to stop b/c it is a net loss. I never want to see something like the Everette Brown situation again. It set us back quite a bit. 3rd round picks are very valuable...much more than a 4th.

#17 Johnny Kilroy

Johnny Kilroy

    Kilroy Kicks Butt

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,648 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:53 PM

Okay, I'm just going to go through these step by step; enjoyable read! For someone who doesn't get all caught up you sure posted a long post about it.

So, what is the point getting caught up in the draft? By that line of reasoning, why do you watch the games? You are not a player, coach or owner. Some of us enjoy the draft & acquisition process almost as much as the games themselves. We too care about the end result, maybe even more (tongue in cheek) than those like you who don't follow the draft as closely, that is IF we equate time spent researching our opinions to investment in the team & the end result.

Everyone tends to make immediate judgements, owners, GMs, coaches, fans, little girls, dogs, etc, etc. It's okay, but does not mean a person will be right. If you do not do the research then it is dumb luck either way. If you spend time learning how to assess players/positions, then it becomes a little science added into human emotion. The draft process is fun. It doesn't matter what Hurney ends up doing, the process helps us to learn football at a deeper level; even if that is our goal or not.



Your points are all spot-on in my opinion; this is the way the good front offices approach things. How did you come to those conclusions without spending at least a little time to learn? (that comment refers to your next paragraph)

The only caveat is that in later rounds some teams focus on how players can fill roles vs. being 'complete' players, it's a subtle but important difference. Where I will disagree is "after round 2 it's all gravy" (paraphrase). The later rounds are where the best teams fill important roles & get solid players; not 100% of the time, but more than not. This is where the time & research really payoff.



We both agreed on later rounds requiring attention to detail, but that has to happen in the early rounds also, no difference throughout the entire draft for the level of research, etc. Early picks are sexy, later picks need to be substanative.

Speak for yourself, but regarding fans not having a clue, being nerds or not having a life: Thankfully I don't fit into any of the 3 categories you named. I would challenge by saying some teams/scouts don't have a clue either...there are a plethora of examples to support that contention.

Additionally, just b/c someone enjoys the draft process or have developed an understanding doesn't mean they don't have a life. I am on multiple profesional & community boards; I'm a medical praticioner; I manage a clinic with 30 employees; ; I spend many hours a week on continuing education & professional research; I participate in community fundraising by myself & through club membership activities; I'm active in my church; I have a family of 5; I am actively participate in community sports & the list goes on. This is not about me, but I use myself to challenge your errant judgement, we all come together here on the huddle b/c we have something in common...the Panthers...when you generalize about a group of people you can guarantee that you will end up being the 1 who is wrong.

I agree again on later rounds being where gems can be found, but not only on small school players or medical risks. We took a small school player in the 2nd & we took big school players in later rounds as well, that could be hidden gems.



I agree with being please with the way the draft went, all in all & about giving up the 3rd (for Alexander); the way to 'consistently build is not by giving away picks. Us nerds & losers who watched the draft ('sarcasim') were watching top guys being taken in the 3rd this year & co-miserating about not having a pick there (guess that will happen again next year).

When it comes to "say-so"...why even watch the games? You don't have any involvement in the outcome, but you still cheer right? Those of us who do study players, have our opinions, based on objective information...we may not have a clue, but we have a basis for the opinion. Why do you believe Adams was worth it? Because you believe draftniks? Many of us form our own opinions during the college football season & from watching all avaiable videos (not just b/c Mel Kiper, Todd McShay or Mayock made us believe them). There are key traits & a real science to how to assess a player. Time-consuming, yes, but for me I love analysis & it is a break from my normal life & responsibilities...it actually allows me to re-charge (just like working out).

Okay. I hope none of what I said sounded harsh, b/c that is not how I intended it, but why the need to bash those who spend more time on football than yourself? Is it because what you spend time on is more important? Who should be judging that? You make those statements demeaning those who spend time on the draft, then go on to assess & opine about the draft (hypocricy do I hear you calling?). I kid of course, but for someone claiming to be cerebral in your sig line, some of your statements seem ignorant & ill prepared. How can a person be cerebral about anything if they do not first take the time to learn how to do something? For me to believe you are cerebral I would have to believe you think & research before you comment. I do not question your IQ, I am just using comparative analysis.

I absolutely love the draft & all it's bells & whistles. I love football in every form (like most of us on here) &, in the off-season, this is what football is. I think it helps us to become better fans. We are not unaware of the fact that we participate vicariously...but it's an outlet & something we are passionate about. I hope, if you want, you learn to enjoy 'the process' of the draft to some degree, it is really fun. :)


I think you took that way too personal.

When he said, "...It is where fans really don't have a clue unless they are scout/draft nerds who don't have a life," I don't think he was referring to you, or anyone on this board for that matter. He wasn't calling you a nerd or someone who doesn't have a life because you don't know everything there is to know about the draft prospects. I think as fans we pretend to know more than we actually do. And it sounds like you are getting defensive about nothing. Usually those who are defensive are insecure about something.

Yes, some get into the draft more than others but really you can only know so much. I don't think he was bashing anyone just giving his opinion on how he views the draft.

#18 Icege

Icege

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,660 posts
  • LocationCharleston, SC

Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:22 PM

Okay, I'm just going to go through these step by step; enjoyable read! For someone who doesn't get all caught up you sure posted a long post about it. So, what is the point getting caught up in the draft? By that line of reasoning, why do you watch the games? You are not a player, coach or owner. Some of us enjoy the draft & acquisition process almost as much as the games themselves. We too care about the end result, maybe even more (tongue in cheek) than those like you who don't follow the draft as closely, that is IF we equate time spent researching our opinions to investment in the team & the end result. Everyone tends to make immediate judgements, owners, GMs, coaches, fans, little girls, dogs, etc, etc. It's okay, but does not mean a person will be right. If you do not do the research then it is dumb luck either way. If you spend time learning how to assess players/positions, then it becomes a little science added into human emotion. The draft process is fun. It doesn't matter what Hurney ends up doing, the process helps us to learn football at a deeper level; even if that is our goal or not. Your points are all spot-on in my opinion; this is the way the good front offices approach things. How did you come to those conclusions without spending at least a little time to learn? (that comment refers to your next paragraph) The only caveat is that in later rounds some teams focus on how players can fill roles vs. being 'complete' players, it's a subtle but important difference. Where I will disagree is "after round 2 it's all gravy" (paraphrase). The later rounds are where the best teams fill important roles & get solid players; not 100% of the time, but more than not. This is where the time & research really payoff. We both agreed on later rounds requiring attention to detail, but that has to happen in the early rounds also, no difference throughout the entire draft for the level of research, etc. Early picks are sexy, later picks need to be substanative. Speak for yourself, but regarding fans not having a clue, being nerds or not having a life: Thankfully I don't fit into any of the 3 categories you named. I would challenge by saying some teams/scouts don't have a clue either...there are a plethora of examples to support that contention. Additionally, just b/c someone enjoys the draft process or have developed an understanding doesn't mean they don't have a life. I am on multiple profesional & community boards; I'm a medical praticioner; I manage a clinic with 30 employees; ; I spend many hours a week on continuing education & professional research; I participate in community fundraising by myself & through club membership activities; I'm active in my church; I have a family of 5; I am actively participate in community sports & the list goes on. This is not about me, but I use myself to challenge your errant judgement, we all come together here on the huddle b/c we have something in common...the Panthers...when you generalize about a group of people you can guarantee that you will end up being the 1 who is wrong. I agree again on later rounds being where gems can be found, but not only on small school players or medical risks. We took a small school player in the 2nd, & we took big school players in later rounds as well, that could be hidden gems. I agree with being pleased with the way the draft went all in all & about giving up the 3rd (for Alexander); the way to 'consistently build is not by giving away picks. Us nerds & losers who watched the draft ('sarcasim') were watching top guys being taken in the 3rd this year & co-miserating about not having a pick there (guess that will happen again next year). When it comes to "say-so"...why even watch the games? You don't have any involvement in the outcome, but you still cheer right? Those of us who do study players, have our opinions, based on objective information...we may not have a clue, but we have a basis for the opinion. Why do you believe Adams was worth it? Because you believe draftniks? Hurney & the drafniks have been known to be wrong too. Many of us form our own opinions during the college football season & from watching all avaiable videos (not just b/c Mel Kiper, Todd McShay or Mayock made us believe them). There are key traits & a real science to how to assess a player. Time-consuming, yes, but for me I love analysis & it is a break from my normal life & responsibilities...it actually allows me to re-charge (just like working out). Okay. I hope none of what I said sounded harsh, b/c that is not how I intended it, but why the need to bash those who spend more time on football than yourself? Is it because what you spend time on is more important? Who should be judging that? You make those statements demeaning those who spend time on the draft, then go on to assess & opine about the draft (hypocricy do I hear you calling?). I kid of course, but for someone claiming to be cerebral in your sig line, some of your statements seem ignorant & ill prepared. How can a person be cerebral about anything if they do not first take the time to learn how to do something? For me to believe you are cerebral I would have to believe you think & research before you comment. I do not question your IQ, I am just using comparative analysis. I absolutely love the draft & all it's bells & whistles. I love football in every form (like most of us on here) &, in the off-season, this is what football is. I think it helps us to become better fans. We are not unaware of the fact that we participate vicariously...but it's an outlet & something we are passionate about. I hope, if you want, you learn to enjoy 'the process' of the draft to some degree, it is really fun. :)


WOOSH!

Right over your head.

#19 DawgzLife

DawgzLife

    Charter Fan '93

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 999 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:30 PM

I think you took that way too personal.

When he said, "...It is where fans really don't have a clue unless they are scout/draft nerds who don't have a life," I don't think he was referring to you, or anyone on this board for that matter. He wasn't calling you a nerd or someone who doesn't have a life because you don't know everything there is to know about the draft prospects. I think as fans we pretend to know more than we actually do. And it sounds like you are getting defensive about nothing. Usually those who are defensive are insecure about something.

Yes, some get into the draft more than others but really you can only know so much. I don't think he was bashing anyone just giving his opinion on how he views the draft.


No, I know he wasn't talking about me. I was pointing out the obvious incongruity between his comments. Everyone has a right to their own opinion/view, I was stating mine. The discord just didn't make much sense to me.

#20 DawgzLife

DawgzLife

    Charter Fan '93

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 999 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:32 PM

WOOSH!

Right over your head.


Either nice job editing out all of the dividers or you have browser issues.

#21 sml1950

sml1950

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 382 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

If we lose Jstew to FA next year,we wouldn't get a comp until 2014 and even then it could be offset by the number and quality of the FAs we sign.

#22 CatofWar

CatofWar

    Join, or Die

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,324 posts
  • LocationGitmo

Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:01 PM

solid post. couldnt have explianed it any better.

#23 top dawg

top dawg

    The Creative Cat

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,678 posts
  • LocationWITHIN MY MIND'S EYE

Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:31 PM

Dawgzlife, regarding that statement that you obviously took objection to, I was just being facetious. If you think that I am inherently opposed to a person delving deeper into the draft process than I have, you're incorrect. We all get involved with whatever we desire to the degree that we want, time permitting of course. I am sure that my wife would say that I spend too much time with football in general. She has referred to herself as a Call Of Duty widow. Moreover, some people would call me a fantasy football nerd (which is why I was initially more involved with the draft process this year anyway, truth be told). I am not gonna hate on anyone for doing what they want to do as long as it doesn't affect me or my family, personally. Hell, even if you do something illegal like smoke pot, that's your business. Forums by their very nature are a place where one should expect people to voice their opinions and differences. My wife has often told me that I should stop coming to the Huddle (mainly because of all the T&A pics), but I find it entertaining and a way to shoot the poo with my fellow Panthers fans.

Ultimately, I didn't really post the thread as a challenge to anyone's opinions. I was just trying to offer a perspective from a person who had never taken the time to really study prospects, video, and everything else that comes with the draft in an entertaining, thoughtful manner. Your taking an obviously facetious statement and running with it, in a way, just shows you've missed the whole point. Or, perhaps you just take issue with my tagline: The Cerebral Cat.

Believe me, there are plenty of people who are smarter than me, but since you brought up IQ, I have tested anywhere from 129 to 132. But, as you probably know, intelligence, and being smart are two totally different things. And, just so you know, I've made some very dumb decisions in my life, notwithstanding my supposed intelligence quotient. Maybe dumber than most. But, in the end, I still got my mind, and unfortunately for the huddle, I got my opinions as well. Knowing this, I wouldn't seriously and/or intentionally disrespect the opinion of others.

#24 DawgzLife

DawgzLife

    Charter Fan '93

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 999 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:34 PM

Top Dawg, I get ya. I didn't want to be in a pissing contest with anyone (& it's not what I felt we were doing), but was intrigued by your perspective & agreed with the vast majority of it. I didn't miss the point, to the contrary, I was simply perplexed by the incongruency of speaking in present tense about only caring about the end result & musing why people get 'caught up' in it; you never retracted that perspective. Did I read too much into it? That is certainly possible. I like literary accuracy & love to analyze; I'm left brain dominant. Believe me I know there are many who love to rant & rave & a person would have no chance of having a productive dialog with. From your post, you did not appear like that; like I said intriguing. I enjoyed your opinion & felt you would be open to discourse. It is 1 of the reasons we get on these boards.

I didn't feel like you were challanging anyone else's opinion specifically, it seemed like a gross generalization which is what caught me off-guard, esp. with your tag line (The Cerebral Cat). Just by the way you write I know that was not some poetic irony. I am sorry if it semed like I was challenging your IQ directly (I wasn't, just was using to make a point)...you are right, I did base some of my retort on ('take issue with') the fact that there may be a higher standard. ;) I actually really line your tag line.

You are right on with the distinction between IQ & smarts (most has to do with lacking 'common sense'); I will also throw EQ (emotional quotient) in there...which is where electronic/wirtten communication can be handicapped.

My wife would agree with your's on the T&A, but she tolerates my infatuation (not with the T&A :) ) with the Huddle.

I appreciate the ability to openly discuss. I like your approach, so I'm sorry if my response sounded like I missed the point; maybe I lacked clarity. I really just wanted to challenge/ask about the intent & get a better understanding of how your new found curiosity & interest in the draft fit into the perception (to me) of the unretracted stance from your first paragraph.

To recap the part you may have overlooked in my response, since it may have seemed like an attack (it was not intended to be)...I think you have a very good understanding of how it all works, so it seemed weird that in the past you could have been disinterested. Kuechly was the smartest pick for the team & Silatolu will be a bonecrusher. I agree that Adams 'should' be a dynamic playmaker & am hopeful that Norman can end up being a steal.

#25 cookinbrak

cookinbrak

    tastes like chicken...

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:48 PM

Plus, I'm assuming we don't re-sign Stew and get a 3rd round compensatory pick?


You really think we'd let Stewart walk in order to get a late 3rd rd pick?

#26 Herbert The Love Bug

Herbert The Love Bug

    Stripper Name: Bo Dangles

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,910 posts
  • Locationtied to your basement wall

Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:05 AM

Plus, I'm assuming we don't re-sign Stew and get a 3rd round compensatory pick?


we wouldn't get a 3rd for Stewart. More than likely a 5th. Just being honest

#27 Herbert The Love Bug

Herbert The Love Bug

    Stripper Name: Bo Dangles

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,910 posts
  • Locationtied to your basement wall

Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:05 AM

You really think we'd let Stewart walk in order to get a late 3rd rd pick?


were you alive during the Peppers thing?

#28 cultclassiccat

cultclassiccat

    flash

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,480 posts
  • LocationG spot

Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:15 AM

Armchair Heroes...Smartphone Zions...Panther Prophets... unite as one nerdy pantherpie huddler ala mode, with a draft cherry on top. It tastes better that way.

#29 cookinbrak

cookinbrak

    tastes like chicken...

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts

Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

were you alive during the Peppers thing?


Yes. We "tried" to resign him, we didn't just let him walk.

#30 KBRed

KBRed

    Scooter Swag

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,937 posts

Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

You really think we'd let Stewart walk in order to get a late 3rd rd pick?


Not 'in order to get a late 3rd round pick'. I don't think that's the plan, but I just don't think we will offer DWill money and he may not re-sign. I wouldn't like for this to happen, but it's also a ton of money tied into the RB core.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com - IP Content Design by Joshua Tree / TitansReport.