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War on Christmas continues


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#31 StepandFetch

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 04:22 PM

actually, it seems far better this year than a few years back... I have seen very few "happy holidays" and "season's greetings"... even the department stores have Merry Christmas in their commercials..

I can live with political correctness... but when it turns into censorship, well, that's where I draw the line.

#32 shinner

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 05:16 PM

It's funny that the same people who think that even the tiniest thing religious that's connected to the govt (like a Christmas display or 10 Commandments plaque) is a slippery slope to a state-sponsored religion, are the same ones who like to convince me that "common sense" gun controls aren't a slippery slope to repeal of the 2nd amendment.

#33 Delhommey

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 01:37 PM

Well it's pretty obvious which side is allergic to open dialogue and compromise in this thread.

But hey, if God tells you you're right why should you have to listen?

#34 Murph

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 10:10 AM

It is a shame that two of the examples I have posted in this thread are from my home state. This is what administrators and attorneys time is spent over debating:

http://www.starnewso...092974&tc=yahoo

#35 Epistaxis

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:14 AM

It still seems very simple to me.

Federal/State/Local Governments don't and shouldn't need to display ANY symbols of any religious holiday. Christmas has become some kind of weird quasi-religious holiday, but it is still safe to say that it has Christian underpinings, so it qualifies as religious for most people.
Private companies can do what they want, including dealing with any criticism/boycotts/stupidity.
Private citizens can display what they want on their property.

When the public concern intersects with private celebrations (an example, a public school taking a field trip to some kind of Christmas play/celebration) parents should be given the opportunity to opt out.

If a school wants to decorate festively, why not make it an opportunity for education?
This is Christmas, the origins (hehehehe), and what it is now. This is Hanukkah. This is Diwali. This is Eid. This is Kwanzaa. This is Tet.
Shocking concept, learning at a school.

Is this so difficult?

#36 Mr. Scot

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:26 AM

When the public concern intersects with private celebrations (an example, a public school taking a field trip to some kind of Christmas play/celebration) parents should be given the opportunity to opt out.

If a school wants to decorate festively, why not make it an opportunity for education?
This is Christmas, the origins (hehehehe), and what it is now. This is Hanukkah. This is Diwali. This is Eid. This is Kwanzaa. This is Tet.
Shocking concept, learning at a school.

Is this so difficult?

That's actually the approach I wish schools would take to religious and/or sex education issues in general, rather than pretending those things don't exist or saying "we can't talk about them at all".

Similar take: There's probably nobody I respect more than parents who are trying to raise their kids right. It's a tough thing to do in today's world.

On the flipside, the ones that annoy the daylights out of me are the ones who use their kids as leverage to push their own issues (Michael Newdow is probably the biggest example of this particular kind of douchebag).

#37 RockECU

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:26 AM

Is this so difficult?


Evidently so.. Great post!

#38 rodeo

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:35 AM

it's amazing how people complaining about offended people are oblivious that they are the biggest pc whiney offended bitches to ever walk the earth.

#39 Murph

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:54 AM

Posted Image

#40 Epistaxis

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 12:12 PM

That's actually the approach I wish schools would take to religious and/or sex education issues in general, rather than pretending those things don't exist or saying "we can't talk about them at all".

Similar take: There's probably nobody I respect more than parents who are trying to raise their kids right. It's a tough thing to do in today's world.

On the flipside, the ones that annoy the daylights out of me are the ones who use their kids as leverage to push their own issues (Michael Newdow is probably the biggest example of this particular kind of douchebag).


Yep.
Hollering "what about the CHILDREN" has become as hackneyed as an athlete/perp "finding God" right around the time the law catches up to him.
Yuck.

Pretending things don't exist is silly.
Like pretending the separation of church and state is not a fundamental difference between a country that loves freedom and one that imposes it's will on the people. Nobody wants to see anybody else's religious creed on the wall of a judicial building. How would that make you feel walking in to a courtroom in say Saudi Arabia?(Not that they would let you in to the country unless you were "sponsored"). The point remains the same. What makes us different is SUPPOSED to make us great. You are free to worship how YOU will, but don't expect the gubmint to push your agenda, symbolically or in more concrete terms.

And as you mentioned, pretending sex doesn't exist gets you in trouble.
WHEN you want that kind of stuff taught is a matter of parental choice, but the fact remains that we all pretty much are gonna learn about this stuff eventually, and it MIGHT be a pretty good idea if these overly precious children got some guidance AT HOME before the teachers get involved.

Ugh.

Again, a bit of common sense would prevent a ton of florid faced screaming at one another.

#41 shinner

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 06:27 PM

This is Christmas, the origins (hehehehe), and what it is now. This is Hanukkah. This is Diwali. This is Eid. This is Kwanzaa. This is Tet.

Do people really want their kids being taught that Kwanzaa was created so black folks wouldn't be stuck celebrating the white man's holiday? Nevermind explaining exactly how Christmas belongs to white people to begin with.

#42 Epistaxis

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 09:13 AM

eh

I really don't have a problem with teaching kids that not everybody in the world is exactly like them or believes the same things their family believes.

That sounds silly, but some parts of this country are pretty sheltered.

#43 cookinwithgas

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 09:17 AM

How the hell can you belittle other peoples beliefs, and edumacate your kids on why they are better than others, unless you know all about those other peoples stupid beliefs?

#44 shinner

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 10:14 PM

I really don't have a problem with teaching kids that not everybody in the world is exactly like them or believes the same things their family believes.

teaching the foundation of Kwanzaa though is spreading racial divide. I didn't really know that a guy invented it so that black people wouldn't be forced to celebrate the "white man's holiday". That should be taught in schools? I guess if you put the right spin on it, you could make it sound honorable.

#45 Delhommey

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 10:32 PM

You're actually doing a pretty good job spinning things yourself.

It's natural in a country of immigrants for people to want to celebrate their heritage. I would hope you can understand that.

Unfortunately for many blacks, that heritage was purposefully stripped away and hidden.

Kwanzaa is an attempt for a group of people who come from vastly different cultures but who had those cultures taken away and then got thrown into one big group according to the color of their skin try to have a common holiday and celebration

I'd hope that someone that gets ticked when someone mistakens something Irish for being English could understand.

Edited by Delhommey, 10 December 2008 - 10:35 PM.



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