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War on Christmas continues


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#37 RockECU

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:26 AM

Is this so difficult?


Evidently so.. Great post!

#38 rodeo

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:35 AM

it's amazing how people complaining about offended people are oblivious that they are the biggest pc whiney offended bitches to ever walk the earth.

#39 Murph

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:54 AM

Posted Image

#40 Epistaxis

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 12:12 PM

That's actually the approach I wish schools would take to religious and/or sex education issues in general, rather than pretending those things don't exist or saying "we can't talk about them at all".

Similar take: There's probably nobody I respect more than parents who are trying to raise their kids right. It's a tough thing to do in today's world.

On the flipside, the ones that annoy the daylights out of me are the ones who use their kids as leverage to push their own issues (Michael Newdow is probably the biggest example of this particular kind of douchebag).


Yep.
Hollering "what about the CHILDREN" has become as hackneyed as an athlete/perp "finding God" right around the time the law catches up to him.
Yuck.

Pretending things don't exist is silly.
Like pretending the separation of church and state is not a fundamental difference between a country that loves freedom and one that imposes it's will on the people. Nobody wants to see anybody else's religious creed on the wall of a judicial building. How would that make you feel walking in to a courtroom in say Saudi Arabia?(Not that they would let you in to the country unless you were "sponsored"). The point remains the same. What makes us different is SUPPOSED to make us great. You are free to worship how YOU will, but don't expect the gubmint to push your agenda, symbolically or in more concrete terms.

And as you mentioned, pretending sex doesn't exist gets you in trouble.
WHEN you want that kind of stuff taught is a matter of parental choice, but the fact remains that we all pretty much are gonna learn about this stuff eventually, and it MIGHT be a pretty good idea if these overly precious children got some guidance AT HOME before the teachers get involved.

Ugh.

Again, a bit of common sense would prevent a ton of florid faced screaming at one another.

#41 shinner

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 06:27 PM

This is Christmas, the origins (hehehehe), and what it is now. This is Hanukkah. This is Diwali. This is Eid. This is Kwanzaa. This is Tet.

Do people really want their kids being taught that Kwanzaa was created so black folks wouldn't be stuck celebrating the white man's holiday? Nevermind explaining exactly how Christmas belongs to white people to begin with.

#42 Epistaxis

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 09:13 AM

eh

I really don't have a problem with teaching kids that not everybody in the world is exactly like them or believes the same things their family believes.

That sounds silly, but some parts of this country are pretty sheltered.

#43 cookinwithgas

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 09:17 AM

How the hell can you belittle other peoples beliefs, and edumacate your kids on why they are better than others, unless you know all about those other peoples stupid beliefs?

#44 shinner

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 10:14 PM

I really don't have a problem with teaching kids that not everybody in the world is exactly like them or believes the same things their family believes.

teaching the foundation of Kwanzaa though is spreading racial divide. I didn't really know that a guy invented it so that black people wouldn't be forced to celebrate the "white man's holiday". That should be taught in schools? I guess if you put the right spin on it, you could make it sound honorable.

#45 Delhommey

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 10:32 PM

You're actually doing a pretty good job spinning things yourself.

It's natural in a country of immigrants for people to want to celebrate their heritage. I would hope you can understand that.

Unfortunately for many blacks, that heritage was purposefully stripped away and hidden.

Kwanzaa is an attempt for a group of people who come from vastly different cultures but who had those cultures taken away and then got thrown into one big group according to the color of their skin try to have a common holiday and celebration

I'd hope that someone that gets ticked when someone mistakens something Irish for being English could understand.

Edited by Delhommey, 10 December 2008 - 10:35 PM.


#46 shinner

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 11:15 PM

You're actually doing a pretty good job spinning things yourself.

I'm just reacting to the creator's words:

Ron Karenga created Kwanzaa in 1966 as the first African-American holiday. Karenga said his goal was to "...give Blacks an alternative to the existing holiday and give Blacks an opportunity to celebrate themselves and history, rather than simply imitate the practice of the dominant society."

If that ain't saying he created it to give the black race an alternative to the white man's holiday, I don't know what is. If it was that important to supposedly celebrate themselves and their history, why would they piggyback on pretty much the biggest holiday the "dominant society" has? Why not have it occur at some other time of the year that wouldn't take any attention away from it?

I'd hope that someone that gets ticked when someone mistakens something Irish for being English could understand.

I don't know if that's a valid comparison...if Irish immigrants created their own holiday on the back of an established holiday in their adopted country, I think you'd have a point...and while I'm sure I would celebrate it (as well as the "American" holiday) I think I'd still wish they did not occur at the same time.

Sure you can point out that St. Patrick's Day fell on Easter this year but that's once in a blue moon, not every year...and certainly wasn't designed to coincide with Easter. At least it's date was set to coincide with the death of the saint and not arbitrarily (or intentionally) set.

I don't have any objection to Kwanzaa as a way for black people to celebrate their heritage but I think it's seems obvious what the creator had in mind when of all the times of the year, he picked the "Christmas season". And maybe in the end it really doesn't matter that it occurs alongside Christmas....but don't expect me to swallow that it wasn't created as a way for blacks to have their own holiday instead of having to celebrate the white folk's holiday. The funny thing is, I bet most black families celebrate both Kwanzaa and Christmas (more power to them) vs celebrating Kwanzaa alone. I don't care what the creator says today about why he created it, he had an agenda in 1966 when he first came up with it...and in that respect I think it failed which is probably why he's reworded his explanation of the purpose of the holiday.

#47 Kevin Greene

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 11:18 PM

Merry Christmas.

#48 Delhommey

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 12:42 AM

Shinner, if we were black men in the 60's, the world would not be big enough to contain our anger or agendas.