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Same Sex Couples' Suing NC


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#91 Ccat

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:10 PM

I like Star Wars, so I must be a nerd right?

#92 lightsout

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:13 PM

My response wasn't a shot at you or filled with name-calling


Right. The last I got was the video, to which I responded (btw, wasn't a shot at you. I just find that video to be silly platitudes). Unless you're referring to post #79?

And you missed the qualifier of "hardcore". And looking back, I didn't clarify that enough. I used nerd in much the same way as I use the word moron. People are nerdy about some things, just as they are moronic about some things. I'm a Marvel nerd. I'm a moron when it comes to cars. Just as examples.

#93 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:16 PM

Religion is no more than a tool used by humans to explain that which is otherwise unexplainable, as well as, to control other human beings.

The stories contained in the bible are fanciful, contradictory, disjointed, inhumane and hypocritical. They are so convoluted in their written form as to cast serious doubt on how it would be possible that any infallible higher power would want to claim any involvement in their creation, indirectly or otherwise.

Remove the cultural pressures we are under from the time of birth to believe these teachings and they would be seen for what they are, no more credible than the ancient tales of Greek or Roman gods.

#94 Ccat

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:19 PM

I was under no pressure to believe it from the time of birth actually. I found Christ on my own.

#95 lightsout

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:20 PM

Guess I am not explaining myself clearly. At one point in time, drinking was considered ok by the vast majority of religious folks, in part because of the necessity since many water supplies weren't very clean and there weren't many alternatives. As clean water became more plentiful, cultural attitudes towards drinking changed, and religious beliefs reflected that change. Eventually such changes led to follies such as prohibition. Another example would be cultural attitudes towards slavery, which religion reflected, in both the North and the South. IMO, cultural attitudes towards gays and gay marriage are changing, and eventually so will religious attitudes. But they will take a while to catch up. Of course, religion also influences culture and there are many examples of that, but I don't have time to write a point paper. :)

Regarding what you said about fundamentalist, I am sure there are a few of those you described. But imo, the vast majority of fundamentalist probably go to a church they like, that preaches against a lot of things, not just gay marriage (but abortion, drinking, strip clubs etc...)

Fwiw I bet you could walk into just about any beer joint in NC, and the majority of them would be people who had no particular fundamentalist beliefs regarding those other issues, but would be against gay marriage.



I agree with this entirely. Well, sort of. Let's get this narrow. Since we're talking about gay marriage, your position is that it's more cultural right now that has been reflected by religion, correct? If that is indeed what you're saying, then could you provide a secular reason for voting against gay marriage/for Amendment One? As it stands, the ONLY reason I have heard is "god says so". I know a LOT of atheists, and none of them voted for the amendment. I also know a LOT of moderate Christians, and they were split about 50-50 or so. All of the fundamentalists I know (and I know a lot more of those than I do atheists or moderate Christians) voted for the amendment. Every last one. What this says to me (I realize it is a small sample size, but bear with me) is that it's not the culture, but the religion itself. It is the only reason cited.

If I mistook what you said/meant, please tell me.

#96 MadHatter

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:23 PM

College student. :(


Why would you chose to attend college in the Bible Belt if you hate it do much?

#97 lightsout

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:26 PM

Why would you chose to attend college in the Bible Belt if you hate it do much?



It's not that I hate it so much. It's the aspect of the close-minded hate that I hate. I understand that irrational fear/hate is everywhere in this country, but there is less outside of the deep south/bible belt (witnessed it). Out of state tuition is a bitch. No way I'm paying that. And I truthfully love NC. Which is why Amendment One pissed me off so bad. I love where I live, just hate some of the attitudes.

#98 mav1234

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:26 PM

Guess I am not explaining myself clearly. At one point in time, drinking was considered ok by the vast majority of religious folks, in part because of the necessity since many water supplies weren't very clean and there weren't many alternatives. As clean water became more plentiful, cultural attitudes towards drinking changed, and religious beliefs reflected that change. Eventually such changes led to follies such as prohibition. Another example would be cultural attitudes towards slavery, which religion reflected, in both the North and the South. IMO, cultural attitudes towards gays and gay marriage are changing, and eventually so will religious attitudes. But they will take a while to catch up. Of course, religion also influences culture and there are many examples of that, but I don't have time to write a point paper. :)

Regarding what you said about fundamentalist, I am sure there are a few of those you described. But imo, the vast majority of fundamentalist probably go to a church they like, that preaches against a lot of things, not just gay marriage (but abortion, drinking, strip clubs etc...)

Fwiw I bet you could walk into just about any beer joint in NC, and the majority of them would be people who had no particular fundamentalist beliefs regarding those other issues, but would be against gay marriage.


On the bar: Likely right, which is why I have tried to make it clear I think they fall into the category of fundamentalists on that issue. Admittedly that may be a poor usage of the term... and it isn't just being against gay marriage, it's voting to ban it that annoys me.

Anyhow, I understand what you're saying now and I agree with it for the most part but I think that gay marriage is a little different than some of the other items brought up: both slavery and prohibition had a lot more going on than just religious intolerance, they were much deeper than that, whereas I think that gay marriage is a lot more simple.

I do agree that society is going to "catch up" in this regard, though. Just being nitpicky.

#99 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:52 PM

I was under no pressure to believe it from the time of birth actually. I found Christ on my own.


Anyone living in our society today is surrounded by Judeo-Christian principles and the associated pressures to conform to those principles.

It can't be helped, even if everyone in direct contact with you for your entire existence has been a flaming atheist. Every form of media is inundated with religious content and you can hardly exist outside a closet without coming in contact with it.

Unless you actually live in a closet and were touched directly by the hand of God I'm calling BS on your statement.

#100 Ccat

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:33 PM

You're right. I can't make my own decision. Anyone who ever makes that decision such as I have is just too weak and gave in. I am so weak that I conform. It's so strange that I am conforming to the "pressure", yet the only thing in my life I really have felt pressured into has been living promiscuously, drinking, trying weed, dressing in certain clothes, etc, yet I don't really live that life even though 80% of the people I'm surrounded by do.

#101 Ccat

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:37 PM

You're calling it like you see it, and I can respect that since everyone has a different perspective. However, from MY experience, the people who conform and have given into cultural pressures of today's world are the ones who act the way I have described before, because it's a small minority of people who choose to abstain from sex, binge drinking, doing some form of drugs, dressing a certain way, etc. I used live like that, but have since changed. So tell me I'm conforming to societal pressures all you want, but I feel like it's the exact opposite.

#102 cantrell

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:21 PM

If that is indeed what you're saying, then could you provide a secular reason for voting against gay marriage/for Amendment One?


get ready for some fugtard to tell you "well you can't know what everyone who voted for the amendment was thinking, therefore-"

#103 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:32 PM

You're calling it like you see it, and I can respect that since everyone has a different perspective. However, from MY experience, the people who conform and have given into cultural pressures of today's world are the ones who act the way I have described before, because it's a small minority of people who choose to abstain from sex, binge drinking, doing some form of drugs, dressing a certain way, etc. I used live like that, but have since changed. So tell me I'm conforming to societal pressures all you want, but I feel like it's the exact opposite.


You are right, there are plenty of people out there that will try and pressure you into making poor choices in life. I sincerely applaud your decision to abstain from bad habits that many in our society don't have the strength or conviction to avoid. Poor choices can cause nothing but endless heartache.

We may never agree on the influences society has on our decision making processes, but if you have found peace and contentment in your religious choices, I am happy for you. These types of decisions are very personal and hopefully one day all Carolinians will have the legal right to make personal life choices without interference from others that don't happen to share their views.

#104 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:44 AM

Get ready for some fugtard to tell you that "clearly everyone is __________" because they know everything about everyone. :)

#105 g5jamz

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:45 AM

Religion bashing aside...this situation could be resolved through a new law.


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