63 replies to this topic

[panthers55]

There are teams that overpay consistantly and teams that don't.

NE vs Car....they handle things differently. That can't be argued. That isn't a claim I think we should be like NE....but it is what it is.

Williams, Anderson, CJ all could of been retained for less....being consistant in overpaying everyone eventually limits what else you can do. My beef isn't do much about overpaying one specific player but the consistant trend. Has hurt out ability to have good depth on the roster IMO

I think you are wrong on all counts about Williams, Anderson and CJ. CJ would have gone to Atlanta unless we overpaid him as we did to stay when we sucked so badly after 2010. Williams had offers from other teams like Denver it was rumored so we paid to keep him. Anderson you could argue was overpaid based on his past performance but he promptly went out and broke the franchise record for tackles last year suggesting he may have been worth the money.

You can't compare us to NE for several reasons. They got away with underpaying for years because players would take less to play for them under the assumption they would be on a superbowl team. Surely that isn't comparable to a 2-14 team that was clearly the worst in the league in 2010 when these contracts were made. Secondly the Patriots believe in trading players before they have to pay them and plugging in the next man up. That worked for years but in the past few years especially on defense that has backfired as they have arguably had one of the worst defenses in the league. Brady is the single reason they have done as well as they have with a poor defense. Without him they would have been like Buffalo the past few years.

And if you say that I admitted NE was different and not the same, then why bring them up instead of a team like Tampa which also underpays their players all the time.

[CRA]

Team a could pay a player x and it be good....team b could pay the amount they could overpay. Situations matter.

Carolina overpaid Williams. Simple and plain. Paid him featured RB money to get the 2nd most RB reps. Some is hindsight, some of it wasn't.

Overpaid CJ as well. His jaw hitting the floor as we drastically out bid anyone else backs that. Could of saved cash there as well.

Like I said, it isn't about one player. It is a collective and repeating pattern I have the issue with. Has limited our Eteam and shown. It is why we crumble with injuries. Weak depth. It pays to have good depth.

[panthers55]

Team a could pay a player x and it be good....team b could pay the amount they could overpay. Situations matter.

Carolina overpaid Williams. Simple and plain. Paid him featured RB money to get the 2nd most RB reps. Some is hindsight, some of it wasn't.

Overpaid CJ as well. His jaw hitting the floor as we drastically out bid anyone else backs that. Could of saved cash there as well.

Like I said, it isn't about one player. It is a collective and repeating pattern I have the issue with. Has limited our Eteam and shown. It is why we crumble with injuries. Weak depth. It pays to have good depth.

Again, it is your opinion it is a repeated pattern. Paying well for your players and letting other players on the team know that you will compensate them for their skills is not the same as overpaying them. You can't know if a player was overpaid or not except in hindsight. And it requires you know all of the factors like supply and demand. For example you can argue Gamble was overpaid based on his past but if you look at how he has done since he got paid, it seems pretty fair. Hurney has always been under the cap and still paid all his players so it is hard to understand how he supposed overpays everyone and still makes it under a hard cap. It isn't like baseball where you can just spend wildly and pay a luxury tax.

Could you argue that Williams was paid too much? Sure you could but as for everyone else, I don't think it really holds up.


As for depth, we actually have had pretty good depth the last few years. Especially considering how JR gutted all the veteran in 2010. It isn't injuries alone that hampered us but multiple injuries at the same position that killed us. Look at linebacker last year, at one point we were having to start guys off the practice squad. The same at DT. Unless a team could carry 70 guys on their active roster, there is no way you can have 4 or 5 guys go down at linebacker and not be hurting especially with a brand new system and no off season. With only 53 players on a roster, there is only so much depth you can have.

[csx]

NFC South CB's: Grimes, Samual, Gamble

[X-Clown]

All I remember of Greer is smitty stiff arming him in the air while holding onto the ball on his way to a TD

Oh I remember something else about Greer...

[Panther53521]

No. 24 Adrian Clayborn, defensive end, Tampa Bay

[nosuchthingasapanther]

23. michael turner

[breezing2anotherSB]

Nice Try guys. Gamble yea right. Can you say top 60?
http://wp.advancednf...s=CB&season=all
Saints* have top 2 corners in NFC south

[nosuchthingasapanther]

22. josh freeman

[X-Clown]

Just when I think Saints* fans can't be any dumber...blowing2cocksatonce really just implied that a statistic that lists Keenan lewis as the best cb in the nfl, and captain munnerlyn as better than Chris gamble as proof of his argument. Hilarious!!!

[Carolinaguy88]

Oh I remember something else about Greer...

Too bad the Saints*** didn't have bounties out for sucking horse c**k or they'd be rolling in the green. Speaking of that, anyone heard the story involving Brees and his new horse?

[xerxes]

Nice Try guys. Gamble yea right. Can you say top 60?
http://wp.advancednf...s=CB&season=all
Saints** have top 2 corners in NFC south

Did you even read that, or did you just find the first thing that agreed with you? Because the way they evaluate CB's is just plain silly. The ranking factor is WPA, which is defined as:

Win Probability Added (WPA) – The difference between a team’s Win Probability (WP) at the start of a play and the WP at the end of the play. WPA is the measure of a play’s impact on the outcome of a game. An individual player’s WPA is the sum of the WPA of the plays in which that player was directly involved. Being directly involved is defined as an offensive player who ran, threw, or kicked the ball, was targeted by a pass, or flagged for a penalty. Defensive players are credited for WPA when they tackle or sack the ball carrier, are credited with an assisted tackle or sack, cause a fumble, defend a pass, or are flagged for a penalty.

Meaning CB's are not credited for plays they are not directly involved in i.e. when they're actually playing well. When you're a great CB, they don't throw in your direction.

That site uses a generic formula and applies it to every position, which produces less than quality information. If you look around and find the places that use actual CB numbers to evaluate CBs, you'll find different results.

http://www.profootba...e-2011-numbers/
http://www.footballo...ting-stats-2011

[bigdog10]

Carolina: Cam, Smith, Kalil, Beason, Stewart, Williams, Johnson
Tampa: Freeman, Barth, Nicks,
New Orleans: Brees, Sproles, Colston, Lofton, Evans, Graham, Porter
Atlanta: White, Turner, Ryan, Jones, Grimes,

Struggling with the last three names to put on this list. Not sure both Williams and Stewart make it either (or Connor Barth for that matter). Thoughts?

***just saw where Adrian Clayborne was added. I wouldn't have him ahead of Gable***

[I Registered To Post This]

Did you even read that, or did you just find the first thing that agreed with you? Because the way they evaluate CB's is just plain silly. The ranking factor is WPA, which is defined as:

Win Probability Added (WPA) – The difference between a team’s Win Probability (WP) at the start of a play and the WP at the end of the play. WPA is the measure of a play’s impact on the outcome of a game. An individual player’s WPA is the sum of the WPA of the plays in which that player was directly involved. Being directly involved is defined as an offensive player who ran, threw, or kicked the ball, was targeted by a pass, or flagged for a penalty. Defensive players are credited for WPA when they tackle or sack the ball carrier, are credited with an assisted tackle or sack, cause a fumble, defend a pass, or are flagged for a penalty.

Meaning CB's are not credited for plays they are not directly involved in i.e. when they're actually playing well. When you're a great CB, they don't throw in your direction.

That site uses a generic formula and applies it to every position, which produces less than quality information. If you look around and find the places that use actual CB numbers to evaluate CBs, you'll find different results.

http://www.profootba...e-2011-numbers/
http://www.footballo...ting-stats-2011

lol so basically because greer got thrown at a lot (PFF listed him as the most picked-on cornerback in the entire league) he's ranked near the top of this wacky-ass list.

this is why you should only get "advanced statistics" from trusted sources like pro football focus or football outsiders. there are a lot of PFFLs out there trying to make a name for themselves with their crappy blogs and half-understood statistical analysis. i mean it's not that it's hard to understand, it's just hard and time-consuming to compile the data. fortunately, we have PFF to inform us that attempts thrown at chris gamble were worth a 53.3 passer rating in 2011 and that he gave up the fourth-lowest completion percentage in the entire league when passed on.

gamble's the man and people are finally starting to realize it. maybe he'll finally get that pro bowl berth he was so horribly snubbed on last season and in 2005.