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Why do you believe in God?

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Posted

my biggest point of contention with the concept of the personal deity of the christian god is this idea that you've got a just being who declines the prayers for help from millions of fervent, pure-hearted believers in africa and asia and lets them starve/get shot/die of aids, but if you pray for help on your math test you'll get it (or if you're a certain terrible NFL quarterback, he'll tip games in your favor as long as you slide to one knee in front of the world.)

i'm still attempting to figure this one out. current theological answers haven't satisfied me.

what about anti-theological arguments?

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Posted

Me too. That would be great, because there are a lot of people just like the ones you listed that are never caught. An all knowing, all seeing, all powerful god could punish those people for eternity. But you know what? Based on what I've been told these slime balls can ask for God's forgiveness and he'll wipe their slate of evil deeds clean, all transgressions are forgiven. Meanwhile someone can do a lifetime of good serving others and go to hell because they choose not to believe in God or Christ. This was one of the first indicators to me that religion was based on the teachings of men not god, fear not love.

God could do a big favor for all victims throughout the ages by appearing before mankind occasionally to remind everyone there are eternal consequences for being inhumane towards one another. But he won't, because the god we are taught about in Sunday School doesn't exist. That or he works in mysterious ways. :wacko:

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I always say there are three kinds of evil. Those who are just in it for the thrill, those who react instinctively in situations that could be deemed evil, {like killing someone who rapes your sister}. And those who just don't believe in sin. who believe there is no god. So I could publically apologize for all sorts of things and you or my constituates might believe it. But the one who apologizes doesn't. hopefully god knows how to recognize the genuine ones.

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Posted

Do you guys really think that if God Himself told people not to commit crime, they would stop doing it? If He told rapists to stop, murderers to stop, theives and con artists to stop, do you think they would stop?

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Posted

Do you guys really think that if God Himself told people not to commit crime, they would stop doing it? If He told rapists to stop, murderers to stop, thieves and con artists to stop, do you think they would stop?

Stop, probably not. There are too many off balance humans. Would it be significantly reduced? Absolutely.

Why are surveillance cameras so popular with private businesses, governments and home owners? They discourage crime and increase the likelihood of conviction if a crime is committed.

God is like the ultimate security camera. He is not only all knowing and all seeing, he is the final judge and jury. He has provided 10 simple commandments to follow. There is a fat red line, cross it and you'll suffer eternal damnation.

If that god shows up occasionally to lend credibility to his cause, not only would there be less crime and needless violence, humans would also be much more caring towards one another, other life forms and the planet as well.

Sadly that day will never come, as the whole heaven and hell / carrot and stick manipulation of human behavior is based on bronze age fables that have little to no basis in reality.

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Posted

Do you guys really think that if God Himself told people not to commit crime, they would stop doing it? If He told rapists to stop, murderers to stop, theives and con artists to stop, do you think they would stop?

I think if everyone knew God existed and he told people to stop committing crimes it would deter many people, but not all. One of the reasons that I don't think things like capital punishment work right now is that the gain is seen as greater than the loss; but if a supreme being and your creator comes out and says you're basically fuging yourself for all eternity, it might change some of how some people behave, especially since there is zero chance you don't get caught when the person watching out is basically all seeing and all knowing.

Yet it's not enough just to believe God exists, imo, to prevent crime... because I think even people that think God exists, who really believe he does, would be totally changed by him showing up on earth and being like "Listen up bitches, stop being dumbfugs and follow my ten fuging rules or you burn. Forever."

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Posted

Stop, probably not. There are too many off balance humans. Would it be significantly reduced? Absolutely.

Why are surveillance cameras so popular with private businesses, governments and home owners? They discourage crime and increase the likelihood of conviction if a crime is committed.

God is like the ultimate security camera. He is not only all knowing and all seeing, he is the final judge and jury. He has provided 10 simple commandments to follow. There is a fat red line, cross it and you'll suffer eternal damnation.

If that god shows up occasionally to lend credibility to his cause, not only would there be less crime and needless violence, humans would also be much more caring towards one another, other life forms and the planet as well.

Sadly that day will never come, as the whole heaven and hell / carrot and stick manipulation of human behavior is based on bronze age fables that have little to no basis in reality.

I would agree that crime would be reduced. In fact it is said in Scripture, that when Jesus comes back and reign on the earth, it will almost be Heaven on earth. Even the lions will get along with it's prey, and people will live well over a hundred years.

Yet even so, deep down people will still reject Him, because nobody can really obey all of God's commands. It's not as simple as saying God telling us not to murder. God also said not to take His name in vain, and we do that all the time. Whether it be through saying it in disgust, or swearing by His name and then not keep our promises. Just by intentionally hurting someone, you are taking God's name in vain. (Because God created us all) All of this would be true if God exists.

So basically God is actually telling us to be perfect. It doesn't matter if God showed up and demanded that from us. We can't do it. (If we could be perfect, there would literally be no need for laws)

I think if everyone knew God existed and he told people to stop committing crimes it would deter many people, but not all. One of the reasons that I don't think things like capital punishment work right now is that the gain is seen as greater than the loss; but if a supreme being and your creator comes out and says you're basically fuging yourself for all eternity, it might change some of how some people behave, especially since there is zero chance you don't get caught when the person watching out is basically all seeing and all knowing.

Yet it's not enough just to believe God exists, imo, to prevent crime... because I think even people that think God exists, who really believe he does, would be totally changed by him showing up on earth and being like "Listen up bitches, stop being dumbfugs and follow my ten fuging rules or you burn. Forever."

Ultimately, believing God exists means nothing. It does nothing for you. As I was saying even if He came down and everyone physically saw Him, we still couldn't do what He wants us to do, nor can we keep all the laws. The more you try to keep God's laws, the worse off you are. (That is why the most miserable people in the world are those who have religion) So if God exists, He will have to reveal Himself to us, and most important of all, He will "do" for us. Think about it, what can I do for God? He owns the universe, has unlimited power, and so on. What can a man like me do for God? (I believe we all can agree to this point if a personal God exist) The only thing that I could do that would warm God's heart, is to take, take, and take some more from Him and let Him be God to me. The more I take from Him, the more I can share with others who don't have anything. That is why faith/trust is the only thing that pleases God in the Christian beliefs. It's the only system where it allows God or a god to be God. Yet not many people take from God, and that is why we see the many problems in the world today. We feel like we must earn everything through our hard work and ability. If nobody takes, then nobody shares. If nobody shares, then you see world hunger/the poor/hurting people/etc.

With all that said, I talked about why God doesn't physically appear before us a while back. Here's the thread for that one..... A lot of you disagreed with this argument, but it when you really look at it, it seems very valid. Man, we complain if the heat index rose to triple digits, and the sun is millions of miles away from earth. Imagine the creator of that sun and all the other stars, being right in front of our faces. (God's power is greater than any star) Again, I'm going to say if the Christian God exists, He revealed Himself in other ways. The last thing I'm going to mention, if we know that not everyone would obey God even if He Himself showed up, nor could anyone obey God perfectly anyway, perhaps not directly revealing Himself was the best way for people to come to Him in the right way. Out of love and not fear. Come to Him expecting to receive, and not us doing something for Him, as if He was the one who needed something. (By the way, I completely understand you guys' reasons for not believing God exists. I believe more scientific infomation will come about that will make people think about it, kind of bring up more discussion than ever before. Since the superstitious days of our ancestors)

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Posted

Seems like a cop out to say "he's just too powerful." I tend to think there are many, many ways God could very easily convert pretty much the entire planet instantly without vaporizing the planet because he's more powerful than a sun or whatever.

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Posted

Matthais,

Not likely to head back to church anytime soon but I have enjoyed reading your responses. You seem pretty reasonable for a believer and I mean that as a complement.

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Posted

The entire concept makes no sense.

I'd hope something as vitally important as eternal salvation wouldn't be so arbitrarily determined as to where you're born.

This I agree on

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Posted

When I spoke with a Christian about that, she claimed that a person would be called to Christ and the Bible from anywhere in the world, even if there was no missionary in the immediate vicinity.

I think she's crazy.

I like to think if there is a head honcho up there handing out salvation, he's not gonna really care whether you say he exists or not, but he's gonna care how you lived your life. Benefit for me there is that living my life well generally leads to a happier me, and a happier people around me, so what the hell...

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Posted

Seems like a cop out to say "he's just too powerful." I tend to think there are many, many ways God could very easily convert pretty much the entire planet instantly without vaporizing the planet because he's more powerful than a sun or whatever.

I know I say this a lot, but if the Christian God exists, there was one time where He did visit us and had daily fellowship with us. (Us meaning Adam and Eve) Yet, everything changed when corruption came in. That is why we die and so forth. Now there is no question God has the power to do anything He wants, but it is said that God hold His word above His own name. So He will not do anything, that breaks His word. There are consequences with sin, and one of them is that it cannot stand in the presence of God. For God to change that consequence, is crossing the line about what God said about sin. So God reveals Himself in another way, what I call "cloaked forms". Ultimately revealing Himself in the Man Jesus.

Now, Jesus is in Heaven. So how does God reveal Himself today? Through those who believe on Him, who trusts Him as their Lord and Savior. As the Bible says, that many signs will follow those that believe. Unfortunately however, not many Christians trust God to this point, and a lot of Jesus' teachings have been fuzzed through time. Since it is God who is working the miracles through us to confirm the gospel, He's not going to confirm anything that is not His gospel. I think I mentioned before how most people with religion try by their own efforts to please God, through their effort. If it's our effort, that is what you will see, man's effort and not God's. Most people's idea of Christianity is going to church and obeying a certain set of rules, and you will get to Heaven. Jesus is thrown around in there, but it is mainly about living a good life and that will get you in God's graces. Most people say if you live a good life, that is your ticket to Heaven. People still even throw in the Ten Commandments, the one thing that utterly condemns us to Hell. God is not going to confirm that message at all. There's only two ways God will be pleased with us, again if the Christian God exists. One, we live a perfect life, not messing up once. Two, we receive God's perfection, through what He's done for us in Jesus. So it's that Jesus' conscious person that God will confirm His existence through.

All of this is theoretical stuff, but I have good reason to believe it's true. I wish to present an abundant amount of evidence one day for everyone to see. In the meantime I'm still looking into these things.

Matthais,

Not likely to head back to church anytime soon but I have enjoyed reading your responses. You seem pretty reasonable for a believer and I mean that as a complement.

Thanks! I want to mention something interesting here that everyone probably already can tell from my posts. I'm a literal creationist, but not an unreasonable one. I believe the universe is younger than the accepted understanding, but there is currently no direct observable evidence to support a young universe nor earth. Unlike many, I have respect for what guys like Ken Ham and others like him try to accomplish, but they don't do any kind of real research. Their main objective is to show how Genesis is meant to be taken literally, but that does nothing for guys like me. No, I'm more of a creationist like Raymond Damadian and Ben Carson. (Of course these two guys are in the medical field, and they do not actively pursue study in creation studies. I just have mad respect for their integrity) I have a personal dream to go well beyond Einstein's achievements and break down a lot of walls science have hit. If a guy like me do accomplish that, then people will know that God does exist. (Yet knowing God exists means nothing in itself)

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Posted

When I spoke with a Christian about that, she claimed that a person would be called to Christ and the Bible from anywhere in the world, even if there was no missionary in the immediate vicinity.

I think she's crazy.

I like to think if there is a head honcho up there handing out salvation, he's not gonna really care whether you say he exists or not, but he's gonna care how you lived your life. Benefit for me there is that living my life well generally leads to a happier me, and a happier people around me, so what the hell...

My thoughts as well. Belief in somethings existence is a pretty silly qualifier.

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