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Creationism in Private Schools


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#16 Zod

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:42 AM

It confuses me as to why you would want any ideas with zero evidence taught in a science class? DO you know how many zero evidence theories I can come up with over the next hour?

#17 Iceberg Slim

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:43 AM

Basis for Science= Empirical data

Basis for Religion=Faith

Using that logic the two cannot co-exist in the same space as the base belief's are polar opposites.. that being said a scientist that believes in religion cannot be considered a legitmate scientist

#18 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:43 AM

Sure, why not? How is this even a question?


Because we have the whole notion that even acknowledging the existence of intelligent design theories is somehow unscientific. In other words, it's only "real science" if it agrees with a certain viewpoint.

It's intellectually dishonest, smacks of fear and quite frankly, intolerance.

It amazes me that people think having a science teacher simply say "some people believe that a higher power exists, and that higher power created everything" is such a big deal to people.

It confuses me as to why you would want any ideas with zero evidence taught in a science class? DO you know how many zero evidence theories I can come up with over the next hour?


Not everyone interprets the "evidence" the same way you guys do. But you're not willing to accept the idea that an alternate interpretation is even possible.

That's just intellectual cowardice.

#19 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

So tell me, should a scientist who believes in a higher power or the possibility of a higher power be accepted as a legitimate scientist?


Yes.
Example Ken Miller. He is a highly respected scientist at Brown University. He is also known for his role in opposition to the creationism and ID movement. He has some really great videos online regarding human evolution and Intelligent design.
Another famous scientist is Francis Collins. He's very religious and highly regarded. Of course he doesn't believe creationism or ID because most scientist don't.

#20 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

Because we have the whole notion that even acknowledging the existence of intelligent design theories is somehow unscientific. In other words, it's only "real science" if it agrees with a certain viewpoint.

It's intellectually dishonest, smacks of fear and quite frankly, intolerance.

It amazes me that people think having a science teacher simply say "some people believe that a higher power exists, and that higher power created everything" is such a big deal to people.


Probably shouldn't wade into this, but why the hell not...

I guess the question would be not that whether they could be a legitimate scientist because I think that they could, but could they be non-biased and look at the facts and data objectively.

If someone has faith in a religion that says the universe was created, as the bible says in "days", can they objectively look at data that says the universe is so old it's beyond comprehension? What do they then believe? Their faith or the data? Can you truly study something and come up with answers that you personally believe to be false?

#21 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:49 AM

Straight ahead answer folks. Tell me what's factually incorrect about this statement:

"Some people believe that a higher power exists, and that this higher power created everything."

If there's nothing factually incorrect about that, then what's the big deal about saying that in a classroom?

You don't have to teach the Bible, don't have to say the name "God", don't have to mention any specific religion, none of it. All you have to do is make the above statement, and you've acknowledged intelligent design.

Explain to me the big deal about that.

#22 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:51 AM

Probably shouldn't wade into this, but why the hell not...

I guess the question would be not that whether they could be a legitimate scientist because I think that they could, but could they be non-biased and look at the facts and data objectively.

If someone has faith in a religion that says the universe was created, as the bible says in "days", can they objectively look at data that says the universe is so old it's beyond comprehension? What do they then believe? Their faith or the data? Can you truly study something and come up with answers that you personally believe to be false?


Is an atheist who believes nothing in the Bible could possibly be true "objective"?

Do you honestly think anybody comes to the table completely devoid of preconceived notions?

#23 Sapper

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:52 AM

Having attended a private school, we had an entire week to put down the textbooks (as voted on by the class) to discuss Religion vs. Science/Evolution in our 11th grade Bio class.

There was a show of hands for who believed in evolution before our discussion (it was about a 25 person class) and maybe 8 or 9 of us raised our hands. By weeks end the question was asked again and the entire class had their hands raised.

#24 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:54 AM

Having attended a private school, we had an entire week to put down the textbooks (as voted on by the class) to discuss Religion vs. Science/Evolution in our 11th grade Bio class.

There was a show of hands for who believed in evolution before our discussion (it was about a 25 person class) and maybe 8 or 9 of us raised our hands. By weeks end the question was asked again and the entire class had their hands raised.


Wait, you mean the acknowledgement of religious theories didn't turn you all into zealots?

Impossible! :wacko:

Everyone knows you can't even talk about the existence of religion or you'll mess with everybody's head!

#25 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:56 AM

Straight ahead answer folks. Tell me what's factually incorrect about this statement:

"Some people believe that a higher power exists, and that this higher power created everything."

If there's nothing factually incorrect about that, then what's the big deal about saying that in a classroom?

You don't have to teach the Bible, don't have to say the name "God", don't have to mention any specific religion, none of it. All you have to do is make the above statement, and you've acknowledged intelligent design.

Explain to me the big deal about that.


Some people believe the Holocaust didn't happen. Should they have to say that in a History Class when teaching about the Holocaust?

#26 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:58 AM

The jews were killed by fire breathing dragons disguised as dinosaurs, duh

#27 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:58 AM

Some people believe the Holocaust didn't happen. Should they have to say that in a History Class when teaching about the Holocaust?


Is it a falsehood to say so?

Saying "some people believe" whatever does not constitute endorsement, just an acknowledgement of fact.

I'd add that there are significantly more people who would believe in intelligent design - or at least the possibility of it - than there are people who take denial of the Holocaust seriously.

#28 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:58 AM

Is an atheist who believes nothing in the Bible could possibly be true "objective"?

Do you honestly think anybody comes to the table completely devoid of preconceived notions?


No

but in what scenario would this matter? Are you talking in regards to science? Are you suggesting the Bible is scientific evidence?

#29 jackson113

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:58 AM

who made God? I mean they say something can't just appear, what about God?

#30 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:59 AM

WE NEED TO DISCUSS THE CONTROVERSY! of Jews being killed by fire breathing dinos since it can't be "proved" that they didn't do it, disguised as Nazis.

After all the devil would totally use fire breating dinos disguised as Nazis to do his dirty work


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