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Creationism in Private Schools


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#31 Nicks To The Colts

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:00 PM

WE NEED TO DISCUSS THE CONTROVERSY! of Jews being killed by fire breathing dinos since it can't be "proved" that they didn't do it, disguised as Nazis.

After all the devil would totally use fire breating dinos disguised as Nazis to do his dirty work


i agree. teach the controversy.

#32 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:01 PM

Is it a falsehood to say so?

Saying "some people believe" whatever does not constitute endorsement, just an acknowledgement of fact.


No but wtf should a school be made to waste time mentioning that not everyone believes exactly what's being taught? Seems like a waste of time.

#33 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:02 PM

No

but in what scenario would this matter? Are you talking in regards to science? Are you suggesting the Bible is scientific evidence?


No scenario, really. Just a response to Biscuit's question about whether a Christian scientist can be objective. Point being that lack of religious belief doesn't equal objectivity. Everyone has their preconceived notions.

#34 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:03 PM

No but wtf should a school be made to waste time mentioning that not everyone believes exactly what's being taught? Seems like a waste of time.


If "everyone" has to believe it, then how do you justify teaching evolution?

Or does it only have to be believed by "the people that matter"?

Heck, if "everyone" has to believe something for it to be acceptable, how do you teach social studies at all?

#35 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:04 PM

It still amazes me that we've created a worldwide internet meant to share information and make everyone more informed on things, and spend bandwidth on crap like this and TMZ.com

#36 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:07 PM

Is an atheist who believes nothing in the Bible could possibly be true "objective"?

Do you honestly think anybody comes to the table completely devoid of preconceived notions?


Oh plenty of people have pre-conceived notions, no question... but if someone truly believes something and their belief is by nature contrary to what they are studying, which do they follow?

Obviously not all christians believe in the literal interpretations of genesis, and obviously some scientists can study science without mixing in their own personal religious beliefs, but that no doubt makes it harder for them to be completely objective in my opinion.

Straight ahead answer folks. Tell me what's factually incorrect about this statement:

"Some people believe that a higher power exists, and that this higher power created everything."

If there's nothing factually incorrect about that, then what's the big deal about saying that in a classroom?

You don't have to teach the Bible, don't have to say the name "God", don't have to mention any specific religion, none of it. All you have to do is make the above statement, and you've acknowledged intelligent design.

Explain to me the big deal about that.


Nothing wrong with stating it, but that statement is really a religious issue... it has no more place in a science class than stating "some people believe that aliens seeded the earth with life"... OK, some people believe it... so what? Should that be said too? What beliefs should be stated in science class? Seems that if you give all of that equal billing with science, then class would get mighty long...

#37 Sapper

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:09 PM

Wait, you mean the acknowledgement of religious theories didn't turn you all into zealots?

Impossible! :wacko:

Everyone knows you can't even talk about the existence of religion or you'll mess with everybody's head!


Well, the discussion was mainly about evolution. I don't know who became atheist after the discussion or who remained religious but still acknowledged evolution.

My parents made my sister and I go through confirmation class in 7th grade at a Presbyterian Church. When we were taught, there was little mention of religion from any of the teachers. They just wanted to show that the Bible was meant to teach morality and wanted us to become good people in the way society describes 'good'.

The only time we got really into Religion was when this one teacher would make us play Bible Jeopardy and we had to come up with insane references from certain books.

#38 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:11 PM

Oh plenty of people have pre-conceived notions, no question... but if someone truly believes something and their belief is by nature contrary to what they are studying, which do they follow?

Obviously not all christians believe in the literal interpretations of genesis, and obviously some scientists can study science without mixing in their own personal religious beliefs, but that no doubt makes it harder for them to be completely objective in my opinion.

Nothing wrong with stating it, but that statement is really a religious issue... it has no more place in a science class than stating "some people believe that aliens seeded the earth with life"... OK, some people believe it... so what? Should that be said too? What beliefs should be stated in science class? Seems that if you give all of that equal billing with science, then class would get mighty long...


Not really true. There are non-religious theories of intelligent design out there as well.

Would you suggest that a scientist deny that any and all alternative explanations - regardless of who or how many people believe them or what other interpretations of evidence exists - are completely and utterly impossible?

If so, is that teaching science, or orthodoxy?

#39 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:12 PM

If "everyone" has to believe it, then how do you justify teaching evolution?

Or does it only have to be believed by "the people that matter"?

Heck, if "everyone" has to believe something for it to be acceptable, how do you teach social studies at all?


Who said everyone has to believe it? I don't think I'm sure what you're saying.

Maybe you are questioning why experts in the field of studies are the ones who determine what should be taught in school....??

#40 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:14 PM

Who said everyone has to believe it? I don't think I'm sure what you're saying.


You did.

No but wtf should a school be made to waste time mentioning that not everyone believes exactly what's being taught? Seems like a waste of time.


If we can only acknowledge those things that "everyone" believes and not even allow that alternative theories exist, then "education" starts to look an awful lot like indoctrination.

#41 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:16 PM

Not really true. There are non-religious theories of intelligent design out there as well.

Would you suggest that a scientist deny that any and all alternative explanations - regardless of who or how many people believe them or what other interpretations of evidence exists - are completely and utterly impossible?

If so, is that teaching science, or orthodoxy?


Dude every time this thread comes up you say the same stuff. And you never get the basic point that ID and creationism are NOT SCIENCE. Scientist don't deny that god could have assisted in creation etc. It's just simply NOT SCIENCE. You can't prove or disprove it, you can't test it, it's not a natural event. It's NOT SCIENCE

#42 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:19 PM

You did.



If we can only acknowledge those things that "everyone" believes and not even allow that alternative theories exist, then "education" starts to look an awful lot like indoctrination.


Um reread what I said. You are misunderstanding it.

#43 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:19 PM

Dude every time this thread comes up you say the same stuff. And you never get the basic point that ID and creationism are NOT SCIENCE. Scientist don't deny that god could have assisted in creation etc. It's just simply NOT SCIENCE. You can't prove or disprove it, you can't test it, it's not a natural event. It's NOT SCIENCE


Ah yes, the old argument that if it isn't what I believe, if it doesn't fit my interpretation of the data, then it's not really science. Gotcha. That sure must make arguing easy.

And of course, scientists never disagree or go back and find that old theories were incorrect after all, right?

If nobody can believe anything else other than what we already say we know, why do people even bother still studying or experimenting?

#44 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:22 PM

Ah yes, the old argument that if it isn't what I believe, if it doesn't fit my interpretation of the data, then it's not really science. Gotcha. That sure must make arguing easy.

And of course, scientists never disagree or go back and find that old theories were incorrect after all, right?

If nobody can believe anything else other than what we already say we know, why do people even bother still studying or experimenting?


That wasn't my argument at all actually.

#45 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:25 PM

Not really true. There are non-religious theories of intelligent design out there as well.

Would you suggest that a scientist deny that any and all alternative explanations - regardless of who or how many people believe them or what other interpretations of evidence exists - are completely and utterly impossible?

If so, is that teaching science, or orthodoxy?


Non religious theories of ID? Show me... never heard of this.

No, I would not suggest that anything be denied, and that's not what I said... but where do you draw that line? What evidence or proof is there of any other theories? Is there evidence of creation? Is there evidence of alien seeding? Is there evidence that pigs can fly? If so, show it and discuss it... if it's just someone's belief, leave it in the philosophy and religion class.


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