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Obama has passed the largest tax increase in the history of the world


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#46 Catalyst

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 10:52 AM

If this law actually goes into effect fully, I doubt it'll ever be outright repealed. Now, they may try and repeal the mandate and tinker with the framework, but history has shown that once entitlement programs go into effect it's extremely rare for them to be simply done away with. People tend to like free stuff, American or otherwise.

As for the tax/penalty debate... honestly, I don't see how this is any different than anything else they use to determine someone's tax burden. They already use income level, marital status, kids/no kids, dependents, exemptions, etc. Essentially what Roberts decided is that "health care: yes or no?" is just another box to check in determining what your taxes will be each year.

It really doesn't do anything different with anything. It may set a precedent in some ways, but on the whole it's not a radical change in the government's authority to tax.

As for Obama saying it's not a tax... well, they didn't argue that it was before the court. From what I've read, it was Roberts who made that determination on his own based on his knowledge of the law. It's odd, I saw Michael Moore of all people on TV talking about this and he noted that Roberts actually seems to have gone out of his way to actually make Obama's case for him rather than just ruling on the case as it was presented.

Really baffling that Roberts would not only side with the left here, but that he'd go out of his way to essentially argue the Obama administration's point for them. Just a head-scratcher there. I know conservatives must feel pretty betrayed by the whole thing.

#47 Sapper

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:06 AM

http://www.ijreview....with-obamacare/

Sorry if repost.

#48 Argus Plexus

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:05 PM

I can't stand socialists.

#49 Catalyst

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:13 PM

Without a little socialism we'd all be in corporate work camps right now. The partisan bickering over socialism is insane. Some of our closest allies in the world have socialist governments; it's not communism and this isn't the cold war anymore. Many programs we've had for decades are based on socialist ideas. Believe it or not, Obamacare didn't invent social wellfare.

#50 Harris Aballah

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:55 PM

You do realize that YOU get to pick your healthcare, hospital, doctor, etc, right? The government isn't controlling you, you tinfoil hat-wearing crazy person.

give it time. everything else they said about this bill has been a lie. Including that is not a tax. So I don't trust this gov at all anymore. All they have done for the last two decades is accumulate power and wealth from those who earn it.The gov has been helping itself, but not the people. I might be crazy and if I'm wrong then I'll be happy. But I have watched the elites put the ducks in a row for some time now. I used to laugh at those who clinged to conspiracies. But I'm not stupid either. I know when I'm being set up.

#51 cookinwithgas

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 02:21 PM

Hey and there's the "It's comin' any day now i tells ya!" excuse, my day is complete

#52 Catalyst

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 02:21 PM

I really can't believe the fear mongering going on over this law. People are actually saying it's the end of America, that we're a communist state now, etc. Do you guys have any idea how fuging insane that sounds to anyone who isn't on the far-right?

What this bill does:
- Mandates that all Americans have health care coverage.
- Provides it for those who can't afford it free of charge.
- Gives everyone an option to refuse by paying a slightly higher tax rate.
- Bans insurance companies from denying coverage to sick people.
- Allows parents to keep their kids on their plan up to 26 years of age.

You can find an example of each of those things in other, long-standing programs/laws - other than the mandate, which has now been settled by the Supreme Court - by the conservative Chief Justice himself. Medicaid will be the same as it's always been, it will just cover more people. The part that bans companies from denying coverage is simply regulating business, which government has done for decades.

As I have said, I'm no fan of the mandate, but it is constitutional now via S.C. decision and that's good enough for me. It's not like the court is filled with liberals who voted along party lines; the court is right-leaning and this still was upheld.

I want you guys to stop for just a moment and really think about how this law will affect you. I mean, really think. I know how it will affect me; I'll go fill out the paperwork to receive medicaid and, based on my income, will receive it. That's it. No tax hike, no massive premium, no denial due to pre-existing condition, just filling out some paperwork.

If you have your own coverage plan now, you'll get to keep it, no questions asked. Nobody is forcing you to join a government-run health care provider. You'll still get your policy from whatever private corporation you do now, only they won't be able to drop you the second you get sick or hurt now and your kids can stay on until age 26.

If you get it through your job, again, you'll keep it. Same thing applies to having your own plan.

I get the question about the validity of the mandate from a philosophical P.O.V. but from a practical P.O.V. I don't get it. Why would someone who can afford it choose not to have insurance? And, based on the new income levels for receiving medicaid, anyone who wouldn't qualify for that makes more than enough to afford a small additional tax burden for their stupid-ass choice. If you make $100,000 a year and choose not to carry insurance, you'd pay an extra $100 per year. Hell, on my current income, I'd pay less than $20 for not having insurance.

Fair? As I said, I don't like the mandate, but the rest of the law falls apart without it. Now, this wouldn't be an issue had they been allowed to provide a public option or have a single payer system, but you can't explain that to conservatives.

My point is this: this law is NOT the end of the world, the country, freedom, democracy, or any damn thing else. Calm the fug down, nobody killed Rush Limbaugh and they're not coming to take your guns away. What has happened is millions of people will now be able to see a doctor when they're sick or have surgery if they get hurt badly and need it. People won't have to worry about going broke if they get hurt on the job because their insurance provider drops them to avoid paying. People born with health disorders will no longer be denied coverage due to something they had no control over.

Hell, there's a good chance YOU will be much better off with this law in effect if you'll just give it a chance and do some proper research on what's actually in it instead of listening to Glenn Beck.

#53 cookinwithgas

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:15 PM

But I want the FREEDOM to not pay for health care then show up at the ER so everyone else can pay for me you socialist!

#54 lightsout

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:13 PM

I really can't believe the fear mongering going on over this law. People are actually saying it's the end of America, that we're a communist state now, etc. Do you guys have any idea how fuging insane that sounds to anyone who isn't on the far-right?

What this bill does:
- Mandates that all Americans have health care coverage.
- Provides it for those who can't afford it free of charge.
- Gives everyone an option to refuse by paying a slightly higher tax rate.
- Bans insurance companies from denying coverage to sick people.
- Allows parents to keep their kids on their plan up to 26 years of age.

You can find an example of each of those things in other, long-standing programs/laws - other than the mandate, which has now been settled by the Supreme Court - by the conservative Chief Justice himself. Medicaid will be the same as it's always been, it will just cover more people. The part that bans companies from denying coverage is simply regulating business, which government has done for decades.

As I have said, I'm no fan of the mandate, but it is constitutional now via S.C. decision and that's good enough for me. It's not like the court is filled with liberals who voted along party lines; the court is right-leaning and this still was upheld.

I want you guys to stop for just a moment and really think about how this law will affect you. I mean, really think. I know how it will affect me; I'll go fill out the paperwork to receive medicaid and, based on my income, will receive it. That's it. No tax hike, no massive premium, no denial due to pre-existing condition, just filling out some paperwork.

If you have your own coverage plan now, you'll get to keep it, no questions asked. Nobody is forcing you to join a government-run health care provider. You'll still get your policy from whatever private corporation you do now, only they won't be able to drop you the second you get sick or hurt now and your kids can stay on until age 26.

If you get it through your job, again, you'll keep it. Same thing applies to having your own plan.

I get the question about the validity of the mandate from a philosophical P.O.V. but from a practical P.O.V. I don't get it. Why would someone who can afford it choose not to have insurance? And, based on the new income levels for receiving medicaid, anyone who wouldn't qualify for that makes more than enough to afford a small additional tax burden for their stupid-ass choice. If you make $100,000 a year and choose not to carry insurance, you'd pay an extra $100 per year. Hell, on my current income, I'd pay less than $20 for not having insurance.

Fair? As I said, I don't like the mandate, but the rest of the law falls apart without it. Now, this wouldn't be an issue had they been allowed to provide a public option or have a single payer system, but you can't explain that to conservatives.

My point is this: this law is NOT the end of the world, the country, freedom, democracy, or any damn thing else. Calm the fug down, nobody killed Rush Limbaugh and they're not coming to take your guns away. What has happened is millions of people will now be able to see a doctor when they're sick or have surgery if they get hurt badly and need it. People won't have to worry about going broke if they get hurt on the job because their insurance provider drops them to avoid paying. People born with health disorders will no longer be denied coverage due to something they had no control over.

Hell, there's a good chance YOU will be much better off with this law in effect if you'll just give it a chance and do some proper research on what's actually in it instead of listening to Glenn Beck.



Holy fug, man. I'm speechless. I was going to reply to some of the stuff in this thread since my last response, but...this covers it.



/thread.

#55 King

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:15 AM

But I want the FREEDOM to not pay for health care then show up at the ER so everyone else can pay for me you socialist!


You have a problem with people having to pay for other people?

#56 g5jamz

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:24 AM

http://www.realclear...ons_impact.html

Watch the entire segment. I loved the NC polling part...anyone think Obama wins North Carolina this year and two points ahead of Romney?

#57 g5jamz

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:06 AM

it's a t...penalty



#58 mav1234

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:05 PM

so Romney and Obama have something in common: Neither of them think the individual mandate is a tax. Surprise!


Eric Fehrnstrom, a senior Mitt Romney campaign adviser, said in an interview Monday that Romney agrees with Obama that the mechanism to enforce the so-called mandate that Americans have insurance -- a provision modeled after the Massachusetts law Romney had signed as governor -- was a penalty and not a tax, a statement that runs counter to what the rest of the GOP has argued in the wake of the Supreme Court ruling Thursday.

"He disagreed with the ruling. He disagreed with the findings of the ruling. He disagreed with the logic that supported those findings. He said that he agreed with the dissent, which was written by Justice Scalia, and the dissent clearly stated that the mandate was not a tax," Fehrnstrom said onMSNBC's"Daily Rundown."
http://www.chicagotr...,0,125299.story


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