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I think we should REALLY put this new found tax authority to the test


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#16 stirs

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:24 PM

Because healthcare promotes health and life, and guns are instruments created for the sole purpose of death. You might as well say "Next they'll mandate we all jump off a cliff and fly a rocketship into the sun!" Come up with a better analogy, you're on the right track, just way way off.


Sole purpose of death. You are incredible.

If I see a guy carrying a gun or a knife, or a ball bat, I would avoid trying to rob the guy, because he could defend his "stuff" or person with his gun, knife, or ball bat, etc.

Purpose could be a deterrant but only a liberal sees things like "sole purpose"

#17 Catalyst

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:33 PM

What health care costs the country as it is is irrelevant in terms of a legal argument. As is what use the guns would be for. Constitutionally/legally it's the same thing.

#18 g5jamz

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:37 PM

What health care costs the country as it is is irrelevant in terms of a legal argument. As is what use the guns would be for. Constitutionally/legally it's the same thing.


Right. I want someone to argue the legal differences in Congress mandating health insurance vs. owning a gun.

#19 cantrell

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:10 PM

Right. I want someone to argue the legal differences in Congress mandating health insurance vs. owning a gun.


there isn't much of one. like justice roberts said in his decision, the supreme court isn't there to protect you from the political ramifications of elections; it's there to determine constitutionality. if you really think this type of legislation is a good idea, vote for someone who supports it; but odds are you won't find anything near a majority of representatives to pass this through the house and senate.

#20 g5jamz

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:18 PM

While he is correct, there was no foundation to find that the PPACA had a mandate worded as a tax. Roberts wrote that part for them....which is why Ginsberg dissented Robert's assertion because she wanted the commerce clause opened up.

As for the gun idea, they should go for it.

#21 cantrell

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:28 PM

the majority found that ppaca either:
a ) functions as a tax, whether or not it was explicitly referred to as such
b ) functions as constitutional law under the commerce clause

this was enough to keep it

#22 mav1234

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:44 PM

Sole purpose of death. You are incredible.

If I see a guy carrying a gun or a knife, or a ball bat, I would avoid trying to rob the guy, because he could defend his "stuff" or person with his gun, knife, or ball bat, etc.

Purpose could be a deterrant but only a liberal sees things like "sole purpose"


Concealed hand gun is used as a deterrent?

#23 g5jamz

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:44 PM

a) would suggest law was found where it was not explicity referred to. There was a prior house version that specifically labeled it as a tax, but that was voted down.

Now the Whitehouse is correcting Roberts say he's wrong and that it's a penalty...not a tax.

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=16679772

I wish Roberts would just say...Ok...I'm wrong. I rescind my decision and it's now a penalty...which is unconstitutional and thrown out.

Obama knows he's up s**t creek if this is called a tax to the American public.

#24 mav1234

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:47 PM

I'm not convinced he is in that big a trouble if it's called a tax. How many people is this tax going to actually impact? Seems like the numbers are low. I realize the word "tax" scares the poo out of every American no matter the context, but I have a feeling this will quiet down before the election a bit...

He is going up against the guy that championed the individual mandate. Then again, Romney is an etch a sketch, so...

#25 g5jamz

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:49 PM

Romney's the only one running on the promise of repealing it.

That's all that needs to be said.

#26 mav1234

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:52 PM

It's funny because the spin on this (and it would have been the same with Obama I'm sure) is ridiculous. Before it was, "It's going to kill Obama when it's ruled unconstitutional!" Now it's going to kill him because it's the "largest tax hike ever." How the hell is that even possible? Like 1% of Americans are going to have additional taxes... Rest of us will probably even save money...

#27 g5jamz

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:55 PM

It's funny because the spin on this (and it would have been the same with Obama I'm sure) is ridiculous. Before it was, "It's going to kill Obama when it's ruled unconstitutional!" Now it's going to kill him because it's the "largest tax hike ever." How the hell is that even possible? Like 1% of Americans are going to have additional taxes... Rest of us will probably even save money...


It was never talked about because name one legal pundit that suggested the possibility that a justice would have "fixed" the law as to label it a tax and make it constitutional. Find one.

I argued from the outset that if it's a tax...it's legal, but the administration persisted in oral arguments that it wasn't...even when he uttered the word tax accidently and the justices laughed and asked him to correct it.

The administration has lied...and is choosing to continue to lie.

#28 stirs

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:55 PM

Concealed hand gun is used as a deterrent?


Concealed is your addition.

#29 Floppin

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:58 PM

Because healthcare promotes health and life, and guns are instruments created for the sole purpose of death. You might as well say "Next they'll mandate we all jump off a cliff and fly a rocketship into the sun!" Come up with a better analogy, you're on the right track, just way way off.


Each year in the US, as Dr. Starfield reported, there are:

12,000 deaths from unnecessary surgeries;

7,000 deaths from medication errors in hospitals;

20,000 deaths from other errors in hospitals;

80,000 deaths from infections acquired in hospitals;

106,000 deaths from FDA-approved correctly prescribed medicines.

The total of medically-caused deaths in the US every year is 225,000.

This makes the medical system the third leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease and cancer.


based on a year 2000 study. I know, I know, the medical field "saves" many which ostensibly counter-balances those that it kills. I'm just making a point.

#30 rodeo

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:45 PM

Why did you put saves in quotes?

Your point isn't really relevant. The purpose that medicine serves is to help. The purpose that weapons serve is to harm. Outliers don't make the whole.


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