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jasonluckydog

ChicK-Fil-A hates gays and my Insurance company supports them

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I don't know if stan is a hatemonger who is "full of hate" or whatever, I doubt it and frankly I don't care... his actions are bigoted towards homosexuals if he's voting for Amendment 1 though, and he seems okay with that. I'm sure he's an awesome guy in other ways, etc... I'm not saying he's a terrible person. I also recognize the word "Bigot" is offensive to some, and I'm sorry if it offends people reading this post to be called a bigot but the easy remedy is to try not to deny other people rights and ya know I doubt some random dude on the internet will call you a bigot. at least, not as often :P

edit: and to clarify, I don't think merely defining yourself as a Christian makes you a bigot at all. I think if you use your Christianity as the excuse for your bigoted actions, you're still a bigot.

I'm far from full of hate. In fact I love you gays...um guys. Seriously though, I didn't vote for Amendment 1...I abstained (It's hard to resist the urge to troll every now and then). I do believe marriage should be between a man and a woman...but if you want civil unions, domestic partnerships, or you want to marry a pig...knock yourselves out. As long as my church isn't forced to perform the ceremony, I really don't care.

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I'm pretty sure that you'll never have to worry about the government forcing your church to marry anyone. At least I fuging hope not.

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No one on either side supports that. Practically the definition of a straw man.

In fact, what you're worried about is already reality, and you're supporting it. The government IS regulating who your church can and can't marry. You invited the government into your sanctuary, just because it's something you agree with this time.

By allowing them to regulate who your church can't marry, you've swung the door wide open for this thing you're worried about when they tell you who you have to marry. If you ("you" being the churches) would have fought their presence in regulating you in the first place you'd have a lot less to worry about.

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Seriously? lol... sure, they can claim they were born hating something, but you are acting like being born attracted to members of the same sex is the same as being born hating people who are attracted to the same sex. That is not the case. An equivalent but opposite expression might be being born hating the same sex, or opposite sex - not hating a particular group of people based on a supposed lifestyle choice (which isn't even a choice but it seems pretty integral to anti-gay marriage to call it a choice). Also, hating someone, and then taking action to deny them rights, is fundamentally different than simply wanting to live your life in such a way as to have the same rights and privileges as other people, or from disliking something about someone else but NOT taking actions that negatively impact them. if you can't see this, I can't help you.

On top of that, how many Christians against gay marriage do you run into that say, "I can't help that I'm hateful, I was born that way"? None. They all say, "God TOLD me this is how it has to be!" and often say "I'm not hateful; I love the sinner, I hate the sin, but I can't allow Gods laws to be trampled on blah blah blah". They don't use the argument that they were born bigots.

i used hateful not as a ying and yang but as example. of course hate is bad.

so let's try punctual. when did you choose to be puntcual? 5 yrs old? 21?

my point is this. there is no slam dunk genetically speaking that the vast majority of scientists agree on. ya know, those guys that many of you love when they are on your side of an argument.

i still have no problem with anyone gay getting married either. oh the tinderbox juxtapostion

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Punctual is still a piss poor comparison, because it's not a state of being, it's a description of someone's actions. The state of being gay or not doesn't require any action.

When did you choose to be attracted to females?

That's the only one that works.

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state of being? *takes fake toke of pot* whoa dude.

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Well put pstall, but you just said everything I've said in thousands of paragraphs in a much more concise manner.

Difference is, I added my personal opinion on the matter and prefaced it with "I'm a Christian." They stopped listening after that and I automatically became a bigot. No matter that I have worked with, talked with, hung around numerous gay people throughout my life and they weren't treated or made to feel any different than anyone else was. I am an equal opportunity befriender. But, I'm a Christian, so I'm a bigot, lol.

And don't forget, only religious types can be hateful. If you hate religious types, that doesn't count.

And i used the same exact example you did - if someone can be born gay, can't someone be born racist? All you get is denial and more name calling.

I give.

Oh, don't give me the "STOP PERSECUTING ME FOR MY CHRISTIANITY!" bullshit. Nobody cares that you're Christian. We care that Christianity is being pushed onto people who are not Christian or who do not choose to live the "Christian lifestyle" (and, hilariously, that includes a LOT of Christians).

I don't recall anybody saying only religious types can be hateful. Nice try at a temper tantrum though.

No. You can't be born a racist. Being born with a natural attraction to either a man or a woman is something we KNOW happens with VARIOUS species (including a TON of mammals, as well as other primates). Racism is based on an emotion, hate. Just like bigotry is based on an emotion, hate. So, because of that, you cannot be born a racist. You have to either A) make the conscious choice to be a racist or B ) be molded by your parents and other outside influences to be a racist. Option B is by and large (from my personal observations) the most common route to racism.

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500- shut er down

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my point is this. there is no slam dunk genetically speaking that the vast majority of scientists agree on. ya know, those guys that many of you love when they are on your side of an argument.

i still have no problem with anyone gay getting married either. oh the tinderbox juxtapostion

There is no slam dunk that covers every case, but there are multiple slam dunks that very clearly indicate that there is a genetic basis for homosexuality in at least some cases, and in many others the basis relates to things like chemical factors within the womb, epigenetics, etc. If your point was that we do not explicitly understand every single nuanced part of the genetic basis for homosexuality, you did a poor job at expressing that point and I'm not entirely sure how that matters on if gay people should have equal rights or not. I don't know of any recent peer reviewed paper that summarizes that homosexuality is ultimately a choice really.

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LOL...absolutely LOVE the comparisons drawn to legitimate wrongs like racism. That response is typically made well before you made it, but I'm glad you finally came around to it. This discussion wouldn't be the same without the parallels between gays not getting married and blacks hung, humiliated, and made less than human. Bravo sir, you win the Nobel Prize.

Coming in on this a bit late, but -

Gays face a pretty hard life, much harder than you or I. Albiet, the things that blacks faced is pretty unparalleled, it doesn't detract from the difficulty in life that gays face, and nor does it make the inequality they face an "illegitimate" wrong. Whether someone wants to acknowledge it or not, there are many parallels between the black civil rights movement and gay civil rights movement.

"You can drink here, but not here."

"You can get married in this state, but not here." - Even if a gay couple is legally married from another state, most states (if not all) where gay marriage is banned will not even recognize that marriage. A married gay couple in NY moves to VA? Tough, no more married benefits, and recognized as single by the state.

We, a country that prides ourselves on "freedom" and "equality" think it's okay to allow that?

You've got 12 and 13 year old kids going as far as suicide because of the bullying, and kids bullying gay kids is an inherent consequence of the idea of "homosexuality not being right" that permeates much of society (especially the south/bible belt). Kids wouldn't screaming be "fine young male" at a gay boy in school if those kids weren't brought up being told that homosexuality is "not normal" and "wrong" by their parents, the government, and (depending on what you tune into) the media. To feel that gay marriage is wrong because of your faith, or for whatever reason, I don't give a damn - but keep it to yourself. You don't see Muslims trying to outlaw pork. DOMA federally defines marriage as between man and a woman - a belief that strictly adheres to the biblical definition...

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion."

Twist it any way you want, I don't care, but not allowing gays the exact same rights and legal treatment as anyone else is unconstitutional, ESPECIALLY considering most, if not essentially ALL of the "anti gay" legislation is backed by religious ideals. This is a country of many faiths, many backgrounds, and many cultures - the bible should not play law. Whether you think being gay a choice, or you think it's "curable" - it's still unconstitutional to not give them the same chances and choices in their life like you or I have. That's not up for debate, it's not subjective - it's blatant violation of the 1st and 14th Amendment.

In middle school, when we went over civil rights, I read about how blacks were refused such basic rights as a clean water fountain, a decent school, and so forth, and I thought to myself, "How could people think that's okay?"

Many years from now, when gays have the same rights as anyone else (which they will), many children will read their textbooks and ask the same question.

It's 2012, and we've got something like basic human rights on a ballot. It's sad, it really is.

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