Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Sapper

The Dark Knight Rises SPOILER ALERT THREAD (with a preface that contains no spoilers)

74 posts in this topic

I offered to do a spoiler thread for those that wanted to discuss the movie that had seen it. So, here it is.

I was lucky enough to get an early screening last week, and came on to urge people not to read ANY spoilers. So I am not condoning coming into this thread AT ALL if you haven't. If we absolutely want to be spoiled, don't say I didn't warn you.

I did the 9 hour trilogy here in Charlotte today, and stress how much you need to watch Batman Begins and TDK again before going. There was a lot of stuff that I missed the first time around and got tonight after a second viewing. I had a write up I was going to post immediately following in this thread about my opinion on the movie (and it was glowing). I now have to really edit it to add some brilliant plot points I caught the 2nd time (review is even more glowing). I am not going to do it tonight, because I am wiped out. But, I am willing to stay up another 30 minutes to talk about it with anyone who caught the midnight showing and is on the forum atm.

First off, in Spoiler Tags - I will give away a lot of the movie in short bullet points for those that for some insane reason want to be spoiled. One reason I am doing that is if you stumble upon a crazy spoiler/hate it and it turns out to be totally false and wanted to know what is real. I am ONLY doing this for people that love spoilers and are on the fence.

Otherwise, Please, please, please go watch it before going any further. (Again, I am putting this in tags).

In no sequential order, here are some quick hits.

Bane breaks Batman, but early in the movie and he recovers. It is all about the League of Shadows, so that is why you need to rewatch BB.

Bane's plot is to destroy the entire city, knowing he will die with them (with an atom bomb).

All of the main characters know his identity by the end (the last being Gordon). John Blake has known his whole life. John Blake also doesn't go by his full name "John Robin Blake" but we find that out at the very end. Trust me, he is in no way Robin, but he aides Batman because he knows who he is and grew up in a similar situation.

Miranda Tate IS Tahlia al Ghul. We find that out towards the end. She was raised (basically by Bane) in the hole in which Batman is sent to. (If you read the other thread, the one thing I mentioned about a TV spot having a major spoiler and you won't catch it until you see the movie and the TV spot again, is it gives her identity away. I read the comics, so I know her back story and recognized the connection immediately).

The mayor dies in the stadium explosion (though he is never mentioned thereafter for some reason).

Batman is on the verge of killing Bane, but gets stopped by Tahlia with a knife. Bane is about to let Batman endure the impending nuclear attack, but Catwoman comes in and shoots a missile through Bane (presumably killing him).

Knowing he has no choice but to take the bomb out to sea to save the city (auto-pilot wasn't working for a long time on it), he heroically takes The Bat(wing), attaches the bomb to it and gets it away enough before it explodes. Everyone, thinking he sacrificed his life, is in total shock/mourning.

However, each character learns through the last sequence of the movie he survived. It ends with Alfred seeing Bruce, alive as ever at a cafe (a flashback from a dream Alfred had).

It turns out, Batman lied and fixed autopilot 6 months prior and ejected well before the explosion...and then left Gotham to retire, knowing Blake would now run the city.

That is the quick run down, opinions and conversations tomorrow I hope!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First thing I want everyone to note when they reflect on this movie. This had to make a major turn from what Nolan wanted to end his trilogy with since Heath Ledger died. Can you imagine how much more insane this movie would have been with Bane AND Joker going nuts in the second half of the movie?

Why do you have spoiler tags in a spoiler thread? lol.

Anyways, I see now why Christopher Nolan took himself off the producer credits for Justice League and why Warner Brothers hasn't contacted Christian Bale at all about reprising his role.

99% sure Warner Bros forced the script to include Wayne alive and Robin taking up his mantle as Batman and Nolan is revolting by pulling his support from Justice League... this man that is supposedly done with Batman jumped straight into Man of Steel and you're telling me he is done as a producer for a heavy hitter like Justice League for no reason?

The ending didn't even seem like Nolan's style in the slightest (Momento, Inception, etc.)

Anyways, Man of Steel will 100% be in the same world that Nolan's Batman lives just probably hitting puberty around the time these events happen, then 2014 roles around and Warner Bros cashes in on the Justice League movie with the much cheaper and less stubborn (Christian Bale always says he's not working if so-and-so isn't fired (Terminator Salvation), if Robin is ever in a Batman movie (he technically was, but not really "sidekick" Robin), or if Christopher Nolan isn't back) Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Batman.

Also now Warner Bros doesn't have to reboot in a few years like Spider-man had to. Their best bet is to wait til 2016, give the I.P. a rest and give it to a good director, writer, and producer that doesn't necessarily have to be exactly like Nolan because, honestly, no one can recreate Nolan's magic. Just make sure they are competent, hungry, and young... much like the directors and writers Marvel finds and they will be set with at least 2 more Batman movies.

I could careless if they go off course of the comics, it allows things to take on a life of their own. Yeah it was a little weird watching the mother of Bruce Wayne's child in the comics with absolutely no torn feelings for "her love" and complete bloodlust but it's whatever to make a good story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They might eventually go with JL, but I think Nolan is done with Batman. I wanted to do a spoiler tag for those that wanted to read the non-spoiler preface, but now I really want to discuss TKDR sans tags.

Not tonight though, I am barely with open eyes. Being a reader as a kid, and watching all 3 in succession, Nolan has created the best trilogy ever assembled IMO. A night to think about it and a re-write on my original review to come when I wake up from my trance ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the ending wasn't Nolan-esque, and I agree with you on that. But he couldn't allow it to be. He had to wrap up a trilogy, so he went away from his shock value ending of Memento and his ambiguous Inception ending.

Yea, Batman did go all Superman on us at the end, but what else could he have done? Talia said the thing was going to blow regardless, so he had to act.

As if JGL becomes Robin or not, really doesn't mean much IMO. Like Inception in a way, the viewer gets to decide how the rest of series might play out. Like Bruce tells John, Batman isn't a person in a winged suit - he is a symbol for justice and what is right. Having similar backgrounds (John and Bruce) and John immediately knowing Bruce was Batman when he visited the orphanage, he could see how similar they were.

The symbolism came full circle at the end too, which I loved. In Batman Begins, Bruce was ready to get revenge on the man who killed his parents, when someone else murdered him before he could, he shied away. When Katie Holmes gave him the what-for when she realized Bruce had the gun, ready to fire she took him to the slums of Gotham and gave him awakening. He then proceeded to toss the gun into the river and help fight the justice Gotham needed, but not by killing.

Fast-forward to the end of TDKR. Blake could have continued as a cop, a cop who was obviously tentative at having to kill people (looking up to Bruce) so he tosses his badge into the river, grabs the bag that Bruce left for him, and goes and finds the batcave. Presumably taking over as Gotham's new 'Batman' regardless of what he calls himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm a sucker for sad endings but I kinda wished he would have actually been dead. That scene was Alfred was fuging heart-wrenching for me. Then that powerful feeling was poo down the toilet because he had faked it all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I came out of the theatre thinking was that Bane flat out said he didn't see light until he was an adult, why would the World's Greatest Detective think he was the child who escaped?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya there were some plot holes that's for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Nolan is done with Batman but I really want to see JGL in a Nightwing movie. I would have much preferred they go with a more Jason Todd-esque Robin character. After all, he fits into the focus of the Nolan universe (dies and comes back, is tossed into the Lazarus Pit, becomes the most bad ass iteration of the group that tried to pick up the cowl after Wayne). That would make an amazing film in my books but I'm the only person I know that really enjoys Jason Todd/Red Hood.

I saw TDKR earlier today and plan to re-watch Begins and TDK and see Rises again tomorrow. I knew as soon as Bane told Daggett the plan was going as expected that Miranda was Talia and I was so happy when it got revealed. I was also happy that Bane broke the Bat in the film. I was a little disappointed in the Bane origin story and how his relationship with Ra's was portrayed but I can't put most of that aside.

All things said, I really liked this movie. Right now, I can't say if it was as good as TDK or not, I'm going to see it again tomorrow and see how I feel then but I think it's up there and I think Nolan's Batman trilogy has to go on the shelf as one of the best film trilogies of all time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And honestly, the more I think about it, the more I believe that John Blake IS Jason Todd post Infinite Crisis. It just makes TOO MUCH sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really think Nolan has just created his own world. I know his inspiration came from some of the darker comics, but I don't think he wants us to connect the comics with his trilogy.

We got to see the human side of Bruce more than TDK in this movie. He was away for 8 years and clearly had lost a step. The Bane/Talia/Ra'z backstory was in full effect here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • elton simpson was monitored over a 9 year period (fbi claims there were breaks but at the least there were still years of monitoring) and at least $132,000 in cash was spent on one informant alone. here's the fbi's version in the immediate aftermath of the shooting:   Three hours before gunmen attacked an anti-Prophet Muhammad event in Garland, Texas on Sunday, the FBI sent a bulletin to local police with a photo of one of the shooters, Elton Simpson, noting that he was "interested in the event," FBI director James Comey said. At the time, the FBI had no reason to believe that Simpson intended to attack the event, Comey told reporters Thursday. Nor did the agency know that Simpson was already on his way there. Comey also said that he does not believe that the police officer who shot Simpson and the second gunman, Soofi Nadir, was aware of the bulletin. He went on to say that while the investigation of the Phoenix gunmen is far from complete, Comey believes the FBI acted appropriately. ..... Two weeks before the Garland event, which invited artists to draw illustrations of Muhammad, the FBI and Homeland Security warned law enforcement agencies across the country that it was at risk of being targeted by Islamic extremists. The advisory noted that supporters of ISIS and other terror groups had posted links to the contest on Twitter. Simpson was reading those posts, and communicated with an American in Somalia who'd called for attacking the event, investigators have said. The FBI then developed information that Simpson might be interested in traveling to Garland, Comey said. The Sunday bulletin followed. ..... The FBI now has hundreds of investigations of potential home grown extremists under way, with cases open in every state. "I know there are other Elton Simpsons out there," Comey said. Finding them, however, is a "very hard task," he said. Investigators can follow messages that are posted on public twitter accounts. But ISIS recruiters are steering people off Twitter into encrypted forums, which the government cannot see, Comey said. "Its the old going-dark problem, in living color," said Comey. He added: "We have hundreds working on it around the clock. But in almost every case of violence, someone saw something. A friend, a family member. Its more important than ever for people to speak up."     ^^^just a reminder for the bolded parts that a federal agent was in the car directly behind them as they opened their doors and began their short lived attack
    • Looks like it has potential. BvS was terrible. I will say the extended version was a better film but still not good. Suicide Squad was one of the worst films I've seen in a while.  That said of course I will waste my money and go see this. I hope they bring back Batman's more cunning qualities in future films. I got the sense that in BvS he was a what you see is what you get type of guy. You don't get the feeling that he has something up his sleeve at all times. Which was something Nolan/Bale had, almost Bond-esque.
    • Saw it the other night and found it surprisingly decent. The acting was pretty damn good for a power rangers movie. Obvious plot holes are obvious and the plot advances before it's ready at times but it's not a bad movie. I thought the suits were cool but the zords looked terrible and the megazord was hideous. Would have been better off copying the original one tit for tat.