Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Our Defensive Schemes


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 jherald

jherald

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 513 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:54 AM

I would love to hear everyone's opinion and list out pros and cons of a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense. Or should we go with a hybrid defense of sorts?

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

Go Panthers!!!!

Fug you Drew Brees!

#2 jarhead

jarhead

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,613 posts
  • Locationnear Charlotte

Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

pros of the 4-3 is that we have the talent in place for that scheme ....less so at OLB for the 3-4. I also think we will see schemes with multiple dbs.

#3 blueandblackattack

blueandblackattack

    Junior Member

  • NEWB
  • PipPip
  • 28 posts
  • LocationSan Jose, CA

Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:03 PM

My thoughts (in 2 parts)

1) Rivera's forte as well as McD's is 4-3, Rivera only used a 3-4 when he got bumped up to DC in San Diego and made adjustments. I think the most we would see out of this is like they said: a 4-3 with some 3-4 thrown in there to throw off the offense. Hybrid could work if we can get the Krakken to wake up to his full potential.

2) I read an article last year that base defenses arent the norm anymore because of how much of a passing league we are now. If you look at formations and how things are going, the base defense averages out to being the Nickel. Which makes a lot of sense to me.

Granted we will definitely need to keep a base defense with a front 7 of LB's and DL but the fact is that in order for the defense to counter the offenses predications, they will use Nickel for most plays in an average game.

#4 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 24,948 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:07 PM

We will be a 4-3 base with occasional 3-4 looks.



#5 Snake

Snake

    swagaholic

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,692 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:47 PM

The difference in a 4-3 and a 3-4 is just one player. We have two Jack LBs on this team so we will be giving different looks all year. One thing we will see though is loads of blitzes to cause pressure.

#6 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 24,948 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:51 PM

The difference in a 4-3 and a 3-4 is just one player. We have two Jack LBs on this team so we will be giving different looks all year. One thing we will see though is loads of blitzes to cause pressure.

A lot more differences than 1 player when looking at a real 3-4 vs 4-3.

NT, DE, OLB....all those are issues if the 3-4 is our base. Especially the front 3

#7 Snake

Snake

    swagaholic

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,692 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:55 PM

A lot more differences than 1 player when looking at a real 3-4 vs 4-3.

NT, DE, OLB....all those are issues if the 3-4 is our base. Especially the front 3



You do realize that most every 4-3 team this day and age has those components. The only difference is if you have a Jack LB or not. So in other words your wrong...


Carolina Panthers defense in 3-4

Edwards/Fua-NT

Johnson/Nibblet-DE

Hardy/McClain- DE

Applewhite/Alexander-Jack LB

#8 KendrickPanther

KendrickPanther

    SENIOR HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,951 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:59 PM

The big difference for us is that our 3-4 linebackers are undrafted scrubs.

#9 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 24,948 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:02 PM

You do realize that most every 4-3 team this day and age has those components. The only difference is if you have a Jack LB or not. So in other words your wrong...


Carolina Panthers defense in 3-4

Edwards/Fua-NT

Johnson/Nibblet-DE

Hardy/McClain- DE

Applewhite/Alexander-Jack LB


I clearly stated I was talking about a legit 3-4 vs 4-3...not as simple as one player. Lining up in a 3-4 look as a wrinkle doesn't mean you have players for 3-4.

We have no NT. Edwards is here bc he didn't work in the 3-4. Johnson and Hardy are 4-3 DEs. Johnson might be able to pull it off but then he is drastically overpaid. Hardy isn't a 3-4 DE.

#10 Snake

Snake

    swagaholic

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,692 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:23 PM

I clearly stated I was talking about a legit 3-4 vs 4-3...not as simple as one player. Lining up in a 3-4 look as a wrinkle doesn't mean you have players for 3-4.

We have no NT. Edwards is here bc he didn't work in the 3-4. Johnson and Hardy are 4-3 DEs. Johnson might be able to pull it off but then he is drastically overpaid. Hardy isn't a 3-4 DE.


SMH

#11 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 24,948 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:43 PM

SMH


Carolina doesn't have the personel to run a base 3-4 D right now. No one should trying to claim they do....it isn't that simple. That is Madden logic.

They can play some selective 3-4 looks...not much more.

I understand why you shake your head....bc you have no words to explain how guys like Hardy are 3-4 DEs or Ron Edwards can be the NT after he was run out of KC for not being able to handle it. We have a roster full of 4-3 guys. A few could handle it....overall they would be out of place up front in a 3-4.

#12 panther4life

panther4life

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,654 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:03 PM

While this does not directly answer your question heres a thread I made about the different looks we had last year.

http://www.carolinah...__fromsearch__1

I noticed a lot more variations of defensive packages under Rivera last year than we ever saw out of John Fox. Everyone knows we employed the 3-4 at times but we also had a few other looks that intrigued me as well.

The "Buffalo Nickel" Much like your standard "nickel" defenses this package uses 5 defensives backs but instead of the typical 3rd corner substituting in for a linebacker we used a third safety, mainly Jordan Pugh. The Giants apparently used this formation more than anyone else. The benefits of this package in theory are you have a better run defender in who can help stuff the line or drop back in coverage if need be.

2 offseason additions should make this package better next year, Reggie Smith or Nakumara could help out here. Anything we can do to get pugh on the field less will certainly help.

The "Nascar package" This was still a base 4-3 set but we would shift Hardy or another defensive end in to play tackle to increase the pass rush by adding more speed. He is not the only one we did that with but it seems he played that role more than anyone else and seemed to be pretty good at it. The Giants have the perfect personnel for this package, they are also the ones who gave it that name. They like to slide Tuck and Umenyiora inside while having Pierre-Pual and Kiawanuka man the the defensive end spots. It did not necessarily add to our sack count but I do believe this package was effective in obvious 3rd down passing situations.


Should be interesting to who we incorporate into this package next year. The 5 defensive ends most likely to make the roster at this point are Johnson,Hardy,Applewhite,Alexander and Keiser.


The "Meatlovers package" Okay I made that name up as I have not heard one coined for it yet. But I did notice in an effort to beef up our run D against Atlanta we we used two typical "nose tackles" side by side (in this instance it was Fua and Fields). We probably used it against other teams as well but in going back and watching the games in chronological order this was the first time I noticed a heavy dose of it but we didn't add or incorporate Shirley or Kearse in until later in the season.

Edwards will def. upgrade this look once he returns.

I also think we will def. see more hybrid looks the year where we incorporate the 3-4 more. When we decided it to use it last year we tried just about anyone everywhere as we kind of tested the waters on 3-4 looks last year. Now that we have a better idea of who can do what effectively it should provide better results. Edwards(3-4 NT) and Applewhite(3-4 OLB) are the only front 7 players on the roster who have experience in these roles full time. My only request is that we never have to endure Norwood out there again, much like I never want to see Pugh again unless they both miraculously improve this offseason.

Who would you like to see used in the different packages and 3-4 looks next season?(yes I know its extremely premature debate at this point)

For me in the 3-4
NT-Edwards
End-Johnson, Hardy
ILB-Beason,Kuechly
OLB-Applewhite,Alexander

Buffalo Nickel back
any combo that does not include Pugh but i'm thinking it our top 3 safeties will be.
Godfrey,Martin and Smith

Nascar Package
END-Applewhite/Alexander
DT-Hardy and Johnson

Meatlover -pick 2 big run stuffing DT'S
Edwards and Shirley are my picks right now

*yes I know Shirley may not be on the roster next year but I am basing this off last years production.


Here are couple decent articles that go into more detail about each package and how the Giants used them.
Buffalo Nickel: http://www.nytimes.c...l/19giants.html
Nascar Package: http://www.denverpos...cos/ci_19896176



#13 GSO_Pantherz

GSO_Pantherz

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 941 posts

Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:44 PM

We could improve our defensive scheme by firing McDermott...

#14 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,667 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:05 PM

First of all our 4-3 is an aggressive scheme which does much of what a 3-4 does meaning there is not much reason to switch as a base defense. The advantage to shifting things around and moving from a 3-4 to 4-3 during a game or between games is to confuse the game preparation and the blocking assignments. But whether we use a 4-3 or 3-4 the key for us are good run fits and pressure on the edges mixed with good blitzing schemes.

I don't think you can make too much of what we did last year given we were pretty vanilla much of the year and were putting together a patchwork scheme that we had to recreate every week based on who was available and who we were facing. For example we won't need an extra safety in our nickel if we have good linebacker and line play. We can use the extra corner or even go to 4 corners and one safety up high against 4 WR sets. Of course that assumes we have 4 corners who will be able to play at a high level which may not be the case.

Anyway, I expect that we will be very different on defense compared to last. Partly in the schemes or looks but also how effective we will be with much better talent on the field at several key positions.

#15 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,667 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:08 PM

We could improve our defensive scheme by firing McDermott...


Wait and see what happens this year. He will suddenly go from a goat to an up and comer based on the improvement this season.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com