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Breaking down Jonathan Stewart's deal


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#121 panther4life

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:23 PM

in what twisted process of psychoanalysis did you equate not wanting to spend an egregious amount of cap on runningbacks to passing the ball every play?


As others have stated, Hurney has never given us a reason to worry about the cap space. I'd rather have them both and roll with a dynamic offense like we had last year. They both played a role in our offenses success ever since being on the team. I love the options we have on offense with them on the roster, because they can keep each other fresh, and no matter who's in Defenses have to keep an eye on them and Cam, which opens up our ability to attack deep.Also nice insurance in the event one goes down with injury as well too.


One of my favorite things about Hurney is his ability to manipulate the cap and retain our core players. He can also add key players(not necessarily star players) in free agency and via trades.

I wish we had a better D-line,I also would prefer an upgrade to our secondary, and would love a # 2 receiver thats as productive as Moose was in his prime.

This season should give us a good indication, if some of those things are already on the roster.


I do not believe Hurney is perfect, he's made some boneheaded moves like trading up for Armanti. With that being said I believe Hurney has done more good than harm for this team, and as you can tell in the parity filled NFL,thats a very good accomplishment.

Another thing that helps me is I know how to look at things with some objectivity.

For instance, 2010 was J.R'S decision to sacrifice one season for the next several.

Hurney got Fox the pieces he needed to take a 1-15 team to the superbowl 2 seasons later. We retained almost all of the talent Fox had on that team, until players got past their prime,retired, or flat out refused to stay no matter what like Peppers. Along the way we have always added key players to our team via the draft and free agency(with the exception of the 07, season where I believe we were tight against the cap).

Then in 09 we mistakingly wasted money on keeping Delhomme and trying to restore his confidence and dropped a poo ton on franchising peppers, which did not allow for any free agent additions. Re-sgning Delhomme was questionable but it was do that or Start Matt Moore as we did not have a first to draft a new qb with,thanks to getting Otah to help Fox's ground and pound game. Plus Fox didn't trust rookies anyway with kind of responsibility. So the next big mistake was drafting Clausen, who actually appeared to be a steal with 48th pick at the time, so our next head coach could have something to work with, well as many gms experience it was a bad pick.

#122 panthers55

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:34 PM

I think when talking passing rushing percentages you have to discuss teams by scheme. For example New Orleans Philly, and Green Bay are WCOs who short pass as their running game. Their 2 and 3 yard dumpoffs are simply extended handoffs which are more like a pitch or run than a true pass. So they tend to inflate the ratios. but even with that said, the Saints* passed 59% of the time. And that appears to be the upper end for teams. So while it is true that most teams pass more than they run, it isn't as if teams can simply pass without developing a good running game unless they want to be susceptible to being one dimensional which is one of the reasons the Patriots have not won the Superbowl despite being in it two times recently. They are susceptible to teams with good pass rushes.
And for those saying that defense wins Super bowls not offense, two of the last 3 winners had much better offenses than defenses. But I digress.

The Panthers are going to run a spread scheme this year focusing on the run option. They are rather unique in that no other team runs this scheme as much as we do so honestly I don't know why we want to emulate a WCO offense or focus on the passing game to the exclusion of the running game which is our bread and butter. And for those who say we are killing our pass defense by spending too much on the running game, we will be spending around 11,000,000 which is less than 10% of our cap on double trouble in 2013. This is less than the 13,000,000 cap hit for Charles Johnson alone in 2013 which is as it should be given that DEs get the big bucks.

How do we compare running versus passing? Last year we passed 52% of the time. So the difference between a passing team like New Orleans and a big time running team like the Panthers is roughly 8% or 6-8 more passes a game. That isn't that different really. Maybe 1 more pass per drive or conversely 1 more run. Nor is the money committed to the running game between the two. New Orleans has committed around 9 million to the running game in 2012 which is about 2 million less than we have committed. Hard to see what all the fuss it about.

#123 Panthersfan704

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:47 PM

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#124 Frash Brastard

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:57 PM

Cowboys can take their place instead.


lol

like you're so not talking out of your ass right now

#125 panther4life

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:12 PM

lol

like you're so not talking out of your ass right now

They have pitiful o-line, soo bad that they wanted mack bernadeau to start(and would have if not injured). Would you take Romo over cam? Demarco Murray and Felix Jones over Stewart and Williams?

Receving cores are about a wash, Dez, Austin, Ogletree, and Witten vs Smith, Lafell,Murphy and Olsen. plus we have a versatile FB in Tolbert.

Gamble would be the best player in their secondary right now, but things are looking up for them with Clairbone and Brandon Carr who just joined. Safeties about a wash at worst. They have Barry church and Gerlad Sensenbaugh.


Demacarus ware is a beast, but aside from him the have connor, sean lee and anthony spencer starting.

Beason,Kuechly, and Anderson are better across the board as a group.

then their d-line is Jason Hatcher(who?)Ratliff, and Spears.

Not very intimidating to me and thankfully we play them this year, so that should be an easy way of deciding who's better.

What about their roster lends you to believe they are better than us? So please tell me how I am wrong with your intelligent claims here.


And just for good measure guess which team has more cap space right now?
http://profootballta...-as-of-july-15/

#126 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:22 PM

Thanks for looking into it. You're more patient than I am

And Denver won a playoff game.

Basically I'm saying teams do rely on a run game and it should not be thrown out the window like some on here believe.

Over and out. Up up and awayyyyy


Denver picked up a old and washed up McGahee for pennies.....and ran with their QB.

No one has ever said running isn't part of football today. Teams are investing as heavily as they use to for production.

Featured RBs are a dying creature. Not worth the investment vs other spots. We are paying 2 and there isn't a single team out there you can say that about not named Carolina.

Over investing in the RB spot isn't a singular end all be all problem. But that plus other strategies limit what we can do elsewhere. It also isn't as simplistic as naming a FA we could pick today or yesterday instead of paying a RB or that we shoudn't pay player x on the high end of the pay scale bc we technically have a couple dollars in cap space to spare

#127 panther4life

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:31 PM

but do they include baseless claims?




lol

like you're so not talking out of your ass right now


Fine example right there and only took about an hour.

#128 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:32 PM

They have pitiful o-line, soo bad that they wanted mack bernadeau to start(and would have if not injured). Would you take Romo over cam? Demarco Murray and Felix Jones over Stewart and Williams?

Receving cores are about a wash, Dez, Austin, Ogletree, and Witten vs Smith, Lafell,Murphy and Olsen. plus we have a versatile FB in Tolbert.

Gamble would be the best player in their secondary right now, but things are looking up for them with Clairbone and Brandon Carr who just joined. Safeties about a wash at worst. They have Barry church and Gerlad Sensenbaugh.


Demacarus ware is a beast, but aside from him the have connor, sean lee and anthony spencer starting.

Beason,Kuechly, and Anderson are better across the board as a group.

then their d-line is Jason Hatcher(who?)Ratliff, and Spears.

Not very intimidating to me and thankfully we play them this year, so that should be an easy way of deciding who's better.

What about their roster lends you to believe they are better than us? So please tell me how I am wrong with your intelligent claims here.


And just for good measure guess which team has more cap space right now?
http://profootballta...-as-of-july-15/


The WR corp isn't a wash. Dallas has more talent. We have the better number 1, they have the better 1 and 2. Dez also has a ceiling heading toward the future no one on the roster can even compare to.


#129 panther4life

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:37 PM

The WR corp isn't a wash. Dallas has more talent. We have the better number 1, they have the better 1 and 2. Dez also has a ceiling heading toward the future no one on the roster can even compare to.

Do you think their roster is better than ours?please save your response until mlp rb can answer for himself.

#130 Frash Brastard

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:42 PM

lol "who's jason hatcher"? Who the fug is Greg Hardy outside of Carolina?

also absolutely no mention of Tyron Smith, whom is probably better than Gross at this point, no mention of Mike Jenkins, and I'd take Spencer over Anderson easily. I'd certainly take Ware over anything we've got going on at linebacker. Kenyon Coleman, Jay Ratliff and Marcus Spears have been pretty consistent players over the years. ...Their defensive line is better than ours when you account how well ours plays its role vs theirs.

#131 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:44 PM

lol "who's jason hatcher"? Who the fug is Greg Hardy outside of Carolina?

also absolutely no mention of Tyron Smith, whom is probably better than Gross at this point, no mention of Mike Jenkins, and I'd take Spencer over Anderson easily. I'd certainly take Ware over anything we've got going on at linebacker. Kenyon Coleman, Jay Ratliff and Marcus Spears have been pretty consistent players over the years. ...Their defensive line is better than ours when you account how well ours plays its role vs theirs.


Well Ware shouldn't be compared to our LBs he should be compared to our DEs.

#132 panther4life

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:45 PM

lol "who's jason hatcher"? Who the fug is Greg Hardy outside of Carolina?

also absolutely no mention of Tyron Smith, whom is probably better than Gross at this point, no mention of Mike Jenkins, and I'd take Spencer over Anderson easily. I'd certainly take Ware over anything we've got going on at linebacker. Kenyon Coleman, Jay Ratliff and Marcus Spears have been pretty consistent players over the years. ...Their defensive line is better than ours when you account how well ours plays its role vs theirs.


So do you think top to bottom thats a better roster? If so please explain. Once again do you dispute Cam is better than Romo? Do you dispute our o-line is far superior to theirs? What about our rb's vs. theirs?

#133 panther4life

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:46 PM

Well Ware shouldn't be compared to our LBs he should be compared to our DEs.

ok your up, is the cowboys roster better than ours? I already explained why I don't believe so, your turn if you disagree.

#134 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:50 PM

ok your up, is the cowboys roster better than ours? I already explained why I don't believe so, your turn if you disagree.

Well, I like to look at rosters excluding QBs since it is a QB driven league.

I'd say it is close to a push. I think there is an emphasis on rushing the passer, defending the pass, and being able to throw the ball in this league.....and I think excluding QB they edge us in those aspects

QB factored in, I go Carolina.

#135 Frash Brastard

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:51 PM

I'd say their defense is conclusively more talented than ours. On offense, it's give and take depending on position. I'd think Cam is more talented than Romo and I'd rather have him on my roster. Then again, the Cowboys haven't been endowed with a 1st overall pick since they took Maryland.

Listen I don't like Jerruh just like you don't but I'm not going to just go and say we have more talent. I think they've been doing a better job of personnel management than we have. Obviously how well teams manage talent compared to others is fluid and could change.


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