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Where does the 2011 Panthers rushing offense rank all-time?


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Searched and did not find this anywhere, but saw a recent [url="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2012/dvoa-70-worst-teams-ever"]Football Outsiders post[/url] on the worst Offensive/Defensive/Special Teams scores in NFL history according to their newest crown jewel metric, DVOA 7.0.

Which, bee tee dubs, the 2010 offense ranks in the bottom 12 in almost every major category. Although surprisingly, our historically terrible special teams has never once cracked the bottom 12.

In the intro to the post, they have a rundown of the new metric, as well as a link to their [url="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2012/dvoa-70-best-teams-pass-and-run"]updated all-time offenses by category[/url].

[img]http://i46.tinypic.com/r8cw92.jpg[/img]

Obviously, we have never had the most prolific passing offenses. Some good seasons but never all-time good.

The Rushing Offense rankings were what I was interested in. I hoped maybe the 2008, 2003 or even the 2011 Panthers might crack the top 12.

[img]http://i45.tinypic.com/mc6ul1.jpg[/img]

Dayumm! 2011 Carolina Panthers, arguably the best rushing attack of all time!
(#1 in DVOA6, #2 in DVOA7)

And what did we do to address our offense in 2012? A versatile hybrid-back who can do it all, and replaced one of the worst rated run blocking guards in the league with a roadgrading monster in Silatolu.

Passing league or not, anytime you can make major upgrades to an all-time great offensive unit, You're on the verge of something special.
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b-b-but it's a passing league.
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A post with actually statistical backing to a fairly sober and non-extravagant point.. i must check for a blue moon and I totally agree, And it's not like our opponents last year didn't stack the box and begged Cam to throw it

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[quote name='megadeth078' timestamp='1345146436' post='1861382']
b-b-but it's a passing league.
[/quote]

RBs/FBs ran a grand total of 304 times......that is a franchise low. That was less than almost every single team in the NFL in terms of attempts by members of the backfield (potentially the fewest number of attempts - as I haven't verified).

[b]Cam Newton effect. QB driven league with a position altering QB[/b].

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I find it hilarious that New Orleans did not crack the top in the new DVOA rankings in passing. suck it Saints*.

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Nice find, and we can always count on a dig at the dirty Saints* from SCP, no matter what the thread topic. A+
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well done. the league had better watch the fug out.

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can't be all time when this list only goes back to 91

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Hope 2012 run offense blows this list the fug up

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It's simply a metric on how efficient the running game is.

St. Louis's 2000 running game is right next to us. With a pass/run ratio of 631/383, is anybody going to confuse them with a running team? Or rather a balanced team?

also, the quote which the OP failed to post that was very telling...

[quote]There's more moving up and down here than on the passing table, because the leaguewide "raw VOA" of the running game was a lot lower back in the late 90's.[b] Teams may be running less now, but they are running much more efficiently.[/b] You'll notice that the 2010 Eagles and 2010 Patriots both fall out of the top dozen altogether once we've normalized for each year. (The Eagles are now 16th, the Patriots 17th.)[/quote]

obviously, you're going to run better with less attempts, especially if you have a very good QB.

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THIS IS A QB driven league now. Soon to be a 7 on 7 league with flags. Keep beating the drum CRA I'm with ya. Freaking RB's who needs them they should only block.

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[quote name='Captain Obvious' timestamp='1345158105' post='1861594']
THIS IS A QB driven league now. Soon to be a 7 on 7 league with flags. Keep beating the drum CRA I'm with ya. Freaking RB's who needs them they should only block.
[/quote]

I just find it funny our RBs touched the ball at an all time low.....and people are using the Cam Newton effect to claim we were wise to continue to over invest in the backfield.


I didn't see 2008 or 2009 on that top 10 list when Double Trouble were the heart and soul of the offense.

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Good luck on that "Cam is the only reason our offense is good" argument, CRA.

Keep at it. You'll convince us all one day.

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[quote name='megadeth078' timestamp='1345159883' post='1861628']
Good luck on that "Cam is the only reason our offense is good" argument, CRA.

Keep at it. You'll convince us all one day.
[/quote]

Find a post where I said that? LOL.

Cam Newton was a HUGE part in our ground attack being the most efficient in franchise history (and arguably NFL history)....is what I have repeatedly said. Reducing his role intentionally is silly.

I have also said, Cam + half Doube Trouble was enough to have the best attack potentially in the league

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Opposing teams having a season's worth of our game film couldn't possibly make it difficult for Cam to repeat the success of last season, right? Cam is just going to magically come out of nowhere and surprise the league all over again because teams don't bother game-planning these days anymore. They just tie up their laces and see what happens. We really should focus on making our offense completely one-dimensional, solely focused on Cam because there's no way teams will do their homework and be ready this time around.

I mean, who does that? study film? It's only a game.

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[quote name='megadeth078' timestamp='1345161244' post='1861650']
Opposing teams having a season's worth of our game film couldn't possibly make it difficult for Cam to repeat the success of last season, right? Cam is just going to magically come out of nowhere and surprise the league all over again because teams don't bother game-planning these days anymore. They just tie up their laces and see what happens. We really should focus on making our offense completely one-dimensional, solely focused on Cam because there's no way teams will do their homework and be ready this time around.

I mean, who does that? study film? It's only a game.
[/quote]

Who has said we should have a one dimensional offense? Not me.

Cam is a physical mismatch and has potential to be one of the biggest in NFL history. A years worth of game field ain't gonna change that. Plus he did all that on the fly.... isn't like Cam isn't going to know more just l like Ds

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A year's worth of game film will change that. What are you nuts? You must think Chud just sat on his ass all offseason and is content on using the same playbook he used last season. Cam is talented, but he isn't Jesus. There's really no reason to expect his success to be a guarantee, especially when he's getting ready for only his second season in the league. Teams will have plenty of film to dissect our offense and will be ready with ideas on how to shut us down.

This offense has to evolve to remain competitive. Yes, that means it's not going to look the same as it did last season. If Chud believes the key to improve upon last season's offense is for Cam's role as a "weapon" to get smaller, then so be it. This whole "We should do exactly what we did last season, except win the Super Bowl" idea of yours is just a ridiculous thing to expect in this league. I'm glad you aren't our offensive coordinator.

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[quote name='megadeth078' timestamp='1345162678' post='1861683']
A year's worth of game film will change that. What are you nuts? You must think Chud just sat on his ass all offseason and is content on using the same playbook he used last season. Cam is talented, but he isn't Jesus. There's really no reason to expect his success to be a guarantee, especially when he's getting ready for only his second season in the league. Teams will have plenty of film to dissect our offense and will be ready with ideas on how to shut us down.

This offense has to evolve to remain competitive. Yes, that means it's not going to look the same as it did last season. If Chud believes the key to improve upon last season's offense is for Cam's role as a "weapon" to get smaller, then so be it. This whole "We should do exactly what we did last season, except win the Super Bowl" idea of yours is just a ridiculous thing to expect in this league. I'm glad you aren't our offensive coordinator.
[/quote]

You are just making up stuff. Or course Chud will continue to expand and open up stuff.

My point is a mismatch is a mismatch. A years worth of film isn't going to suddenly make
Cam not the unique nightmare he presents to teams.

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[quote name='CRA' timestamp='1345159455' post='1861620']
I just find it funny our RBs touched the ball at an all time low.....and people are using the Cam Newton effect to claim we were wise to continue to over invest in the backfield.


I didn't see 2008 or 2009 on that top 10 list when Double Trouble were the heart and soul of the offense.
[/quote]
Double trouble have had more combined snaps in 2011 then any other year. The fact that there not running the ball as frequently doesnt mean they arent having a simlar level of importance.

I dont see how it isnt wise. How is signing these two guys wrong? Its only going to improve the offence.

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[quote name='MaineManPanther' timestamp='1345162892' post='1861688']

Double trouble have had more combined snaps in 2011 then any other year. The fact that there not running the ball as frequently doesnt mean they arent having a simlar level of importance.

I dont see how it isnt wise. How is signing these two guys wrong? Its only going to improve the offence.
[/quote]

Fact remains they probably saw the field together 10 times all year. Talent, sitting, watching....

Double Trouble is great. But a luxury. There are more important positions we need to worry about going forward. Not sure why this fanbase cares so greatly about having the best backup RB in the NFL as we continue to develop more holes seemingly every season at important positions.

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After the first two games last season you would get crucified here for suggesting that the team needed to run more...people just wanted to see Newton throw for 400 yards every game.

Now you get crap thrown at you if you don't agree that the team needs so much invested in running backs.

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[quote name='MLP_RB' timestamp='1345153088' post='1861529']
It's simply a metric on how efficient the running game is.[/quote]

Yes and it is normalized by how efficient every other team in the league is for that year...

[quote name='MLP_RB' timestamp='1345153088' post='1861529']St. Louis's 2000 running game is right next to us. With a pass/run ratio of 631/383, is anybody going to confuse them with a running team? Or rather a balanced team?[/quote]

I never said that St. Louis was a running team. That Rams team also still holds the record for most passing yards in a season.

I said that we had one of the most efficient rushing attacks in the, as someone above pointed out, last 21 years.

The 2000 Rams had one of the all-time greatest rushing and passing offenses in league history. Our passing offense was barely even in the top half of the league, last year, in DVOA.

[quote name='MLP_RB' timestamp='1345153088' post='1861529']also, the quote which the OP failed to post that was very telling...

obviously, you're going to run better with less attempts, especially if you have a very good QB.
[/quote]

So, the fact that we had the 2nd most efficient ground game, out of a sample size of 645 teams, based on a metric that measures efficiency by league average for that year, in a time when running efficiency is at an all-time high, league wide; somehow that makes it less impressive?

Do you read what you type?

The league wide efficiency of both, passing and rushing, only makes it more impressive seeing teams like us and the Pats up that high on these lists.

And to that, we have re-signed one of the best backs in the league, and added, what should be, 2 major upgrades to our ground game. I think it is safe to say what direction Chico and Chud want to go with this team.

Anybody who thinks that we just invested $50+m and a 2nd round pick in 3 integral pieces of our rushing attack, to heave the ball 40+ times a game, is functionally retarded.

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[quote name='Stumpy' timestamp='1345180525' post='1861925']


I never said that St. Louis was a running team. That Rams team also still holds the record for most passing yards in a season.

I said that we had one of the most efficient rushing attacks in the, as someone above pointed out, last 21 years.

[i]It was a point made against anybody using this to reinforce their misguided opinion that we're still a running team or should be.[/i] [i]It didn't have to include you for me to say it.[/i]

The 2000 Rams had one of the all-time greatest rushing and passing offenses in league history. Our passing offense was barely even in the top half of the league, last year, in DVOA.

[i]That doesn't mean teams weren't threatened by Cam at a certain point enough to make an effort defending the pass. Remember, he still threw for 4,051 yards, and that was after his production had cooled somewhat. Also you're forgetting that the Panthers had something like the most plays over 20 yards out of any team in the league last season. They ended up 5th in the league in pass completions over 20 yards. If you're a team playing defense against a passing offense like this you have to respect that threat.[/i]


So, the fact that we had the 2nd most efficient ground game, out of a sample size of 645 teams, based on a metric that measures efficiency by league average for that year, in a time when running efficiency is at an all-time high, league wide; somehow that makes it less impressive?

Do you read what you type?

[i]What did you get your dick caught in a sling now because somebody made a point that doesn't confer with your drum-beating about how this stat makes it worth the contracts? First of all I doubt we crack that list without Cam's own running ability figured into it. His presence simply helped the running game produce at the rate that it did. He rushed for almost as many yards as Stewart. He rushed for more touchdowns than both our top running backs combined. [u]He was 2nd in the entire fuging league in rushing touchdowns[/u]. He kept teams from stacking the box against them unlike in 2010. Besides that, let me ask you this hypothetical so you can understand exactly what I'm talking about, barring any other difference in offensive personnel, do you think a running game can be more productive with Drew Brees than with Chad Henne? Your answer should be yes.[/i] [i]Now assume that Drew Brees hypothetically had the running ability to produce yards and points similar to Cam. That would go a long way to raising DVOA.[/i]

The league wide efficiency of both, passing and rushing, only makes it more impressive seeing teams like us and the Pats up that high on these lists.

And to that, we have re-signed one of the best backs in the league, and added, what should be, 2 major upgrades to our ground game. I think it is safe to say what direction Chico and Chud want to go with this team.

Anybody who thinks that we just invested $50+m and a 2nd round pick in 3 integral pieces of our rushing attack, to heave the ball 40+ times a game, is functionally retarded.

[i]There's a difference in doing what you want to do, and doing what you have to do to win a game. Did you think Rivera wanted our tackles to get blown off the line almost every single running play against our defense last year? Did Rivera want to scale down the defensive playbook and make it more conservative because, as things turned out, we didn't have the personnel to run it properly (and we still might not) and were getting burned by Jeff King? Does any team necessarily want to start throwing the ball every down when they're down by 14 in the fourth? In this league nobody gets to do exactly what they want, and they all make adjustments in order to get back in the game. I highly doubt with a significant scoring deficit Ron's going to ignore the fact that we have a future premier QB on our offense and keep calling handoffs. You don't force reps to players regardless of the game situation and whether or not it's beneficial because of the money you've spent. It goes both ways. For instance, if you're up by 30 with 5 minutes left in the game, why the fug do you still need Cam to keep dropping back?[/i]

[i]The first time we get down by multiple scores this season I'd like to see you act surprised and go "but why aren't they calling dive plays when we have the outstanding running backs to do it". Everybody's going to make bitch threads when we lose games about how Williams and Stewart didn't get enough carries now more than ever (like they do multiple times every single year) and that's the moment they'll realize how stupid this investment really was.[/i]
[/quote]

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WTF are you even talking about now. No one is saying we are going back the John Fox patented, run right, run left, draw, punt offense.

We have a truely innovative OC, a (hopefully) HOF WR and a true NFL dual threat QB. Of course we will pass the ball.

But we also have one of the most imposing ground attacks in the last 20 years, and have only improved it.

RR has repeatedly talked about dictating the game on offense and imposing their will on teams. Based on where we are investing our $/picks, I think its pretty obvious what that will will be.

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